So it appears the hero talent boxes aren't showing up due to template inclusion limits. What can we do about this?
- Shorten/simplify pages that are being included.
- Raise the inclusion limit.
Shortening/simplifying the page is probably the most reasonable choice, since it makes no sense to have the page be > 2 MB.
Yes, but how should they be shortened? What information is going to be cut out?
If done effectively, no information needs to be cut. Just use less junk code. Look at individual subpages and see which are using up the most space. Shorten those. Etc. Cmon, you can do this, Xcelled.
Is it really necessary for all the talent tables to show up on that one page? Why not just split this page into multiple subpages?
I also think the best solution is to just make the Talent page link to separate pages for each talent. Generalized information about talents can stay on the Talent page while the massive tables can be on the individual pages. This is also something Kadalyn suggested. A benefit of this change (or at least I think it's a benefit) is that the tabbed tables are no longer required. Tabs hide information to save room, but we can use as much room as we want on the new pages without making it look as cluttered as if all the tables were shown on the current Talent page.
I'm going to agree with the above, simply because it's like the easiest and simplest route.
We don't need no fire.
That seems fine, but maybe we can keep all the hero talents on one page still?
Hero talents can stay on their own area. Milletian talents can stay on their own area. Just have this page redirect to them.
I'm just going to nod "yes" and pretend I understand what's going on. As far as Hero tables...ugh. that place is a mess as it is, and outdated since free creation disabled hero talents.
Main Page > Small detailed page > insert table on said small page
Considering how Ace skills are affected by respective normal talents, I'm guessing its Adventurer that's affecting Treasure Hunter?
>.> What's with that face? Is it that hard to give a straight yes or no answer?
Well I already pointed this out to you in the IRC, but in case anyone else looks at this discussion with a similar question (which I hope no one does while the 2x skill exp event is going);
Currently there's an event that gives 2x exp training for talents related to treasure hunter (dual gun, mercantile, and adventurer), as well as a separate bonus for treasure hunter skills itself. If the treasure hunter skills received training from dual gun, mercantile, or adventurer, then you'd be getting 4x exp without having the corresponding talent as your active talent.
Not necessarily. There has been overlap before during anime summer, and we did not get 4x training without being the talent. Holy Arts and Soul Star, for example, did not give 4x training when they were both in effect. Anyway, yes, adventurer talent trains all 3 treasure hunter skills. Adventurer talent people currently get 4x training on the treasure hunter skills, and people without adventurer or treasure hunter talent get 2x. When a treasure hunter skill is trained with the adventurer talent it says "specialized skill bonus x2; adventure talent exp x2." So, I think it's safe to say.
Um picture proof, Meru? Just to clear up the conflicting reports.
Just rebirthed into adventurer myself. Started getting 4x instead of just 2x. Better picture for better proof since my friends pic didn't have character info up. http://i.imgur.com/2R23dTI.jpg Pretty strange then I guess. Edit: Just had a thought. Did you change to adventurer talent before or after the patch? If you rebirthed before, maybe you got an old version of adventurer talent that doesn't contribute.
Do you have to pay Pon to keep the Ace talent you are in, same when rebirthing into it if you were in a normal talent but used an Ace/Hero card on that character previously?
So update after 10 weeks on my Soul Star...you cannot rebirth back into the Hero Talents without a card. GOD FFFFFF-asfasfawfafds...excuse me while I go sleep on this.
Is there any update/change on this? I'd like to rebirth into druid, but I don't want to have to pay 39 pons every day (under 1k total level rebirth thing) to keep it...
You cannot retain any Hero talent without paying up the pons every time you rebirth.
Eugh Nexon wai, that's so tragic. Why is it not just pons if you change it. :T
Why exactly do you want to rb to druid?
If you're rbing to druid just for the skill training bonus in 3 talents, then you're just wasting money. Since you're under 1k, you can have all of your skills reset for free. So instead of rbing to druid and then rbing daily, you could rb to magic/holy arts/medicine talent, get a skill that get's 2x training to r1, derank it, and then train another skill until you r1 everything you want under that talent (you're going to want ~600 AP)
However, if you just want to rb to druid for the skills, then you only need to rb once to get the skills. But honestly, if you're under 1k total, then you likely won't have the stats, gear, funds or AP to use those skills to their fullest.
I'm lv624 atm, and I'm being lazy about the daily rb's honestly. I've got around 15-20m in funds I can use, based on Ruairi market prices. I HAVE been ranking many skills to 1 and deranking them to save the skills levels/training for later. But atm I'm sticking with Magic, specifically lightning-based/healing atm. I'll branch out as I get higher in level. I have a (+23 MA, s5, 81-INT-Artisan) Hermit staff that I'm using for a all around magic weapon, and around 500 int @ lv50 w/o the staff equipped. Planning on wasting money on reforges for MA/cast speed reforge once I can afford that easily, though. I don't think those stats are bad at all for my level honestly, but correct me if I'm wrong.
I wanted to RB druid for the skills, but then stay as that talent for the training. But if it's 39 pons every time then I'll just do it once for the skills, and possibly revisit it later for the training.
File:Mabinogi Talent Choices.png is now outdated as they changed the Talent UI. So, what will we do? Will we change it to fit the new UI, despite there being no single tab that includes every talent? If the answer to the previous question is no, what if they add a new talent? Will we separate it into two images like it is ingame to also show this new talent's icon?
Fully training a skill at rank 1, doesn't add any talent exp, right?
As far as I've read, the wiki writes that any character card used to create a new character will allow the newly created character to take a Hero Talent for their first talent. However, this is false. The Assistant Cards obtained through allying with the Elves or Giants as a human do not allow you to take a Hero Talent, they automatically throw you over to pick a normal Talent instead.
To be fair, not everyone has a freely available Assistant Card or only just created assistant character to try it out.
It's fairly likely that the Assistant Cards are the only ones like that, since the character card you get to create the first character still allows a Hero Talent.
During the initial KR Live (not test) release of the Druid skills, we were unable to get 2x training on Spellwalk, Snapcast, or Meteor Strike from any talent but Druid (we did not receive it from Mage, Cleric, nor Pharmacist). Apparently in NA, you can get 2x in those skills with both Druid and Mage, but supposedly not Cleric and Pharmacist. In addition, we tested it on KR Live again today and you can get 2x from regular Mage talent. That being said, I have two hypotheses:
- A: It is intended (making Hero Talents seem really useless in my opinion).
- B: It is unintended and an abusable glitch.
Keep in mind that when you go to the Mage section of the Talent Window, you do not see the Druid skills. You however, also do not see Potion Lore or Shockwave. If you guys decide this is an abusable glitch, please delete this thread and never speak a word of it again.
Its intended in KR? So I guess Hero Talents ARE useless then.
- Diva get affected by Music?
- Vate get affected by Battle/Construct Alchemy?
- Master Chef get affected by Cooking?
- Treasure Hunter get affected by Adventurer?
Both terms seem to be used. What's the difference? Are they synonymous? If so, which do we use?
Just putting this out there before anybody tries to tear their brains out later figuring this out, Hero Talent Skills do not give talent experience to any talent, and are only trained by the hero talent. They are the exact opposite of Hidden Skills which are trained by three normal talents and give experience to all three. However, note that Magic Weapon Mastery and Guard Cylinder Mastery are not Hero Skills, so those two do give talent experience only to Mage and Combat Alchemy respectively.
- Do not give talent experience:
- Do give talent experience:
So...Hero Talent like say for my case, Vate, will receive training bonuses to the respective talent skills of the three involved, but will not receive the training bonus the specific skills for Vate (Hydra, Golden and w/e else)
Vate will train Combat Alchemy Skills, Combat Skills, Construction Alchemy skills, and Hydra/Elemental/Golden.
Construct Alchemy and Combat won't train Hydra/Elemental/Golden. Both Vate and Combat Alchemy will train Guard Cylinder Mastery but Combat Alchemy won't train Hydra/Elemental Golden, only Vate does that.
Ohhh...so essentially, the new skills for Vate can only receive the training bonus if Vate is the active talent. Welp, time to store money.
Yep, exact opposite of Hidden skills. Only trained by the hero talent, and does not give talent experience to any talent.
Is it hard to train those skills without the 2x bonus? Its not grindy like Fighter, Bard, Puppeteer, and Gunner is it?
Rank 1 Hydra (From Mabinogi Gameabout)
- "스킬을 성공시킨다" . +0.01, 수련횟수 8,000번 [ 80% ]
- "한번에 8명 이상의 강한 적에게 효과를 입힌다" . +0.03, 수련횟수 4,000번 [ 120% ]
- "한번에 7명 이상의 매우 강한 적에게 효과를 입힌다" . +0.08, 수련횟수 2,000번 [ 160% ]
- "한번에 3명 이상의 보스급 적에게 효과를 입힌다". +0.1, 수련횟수 1,000번 [ 100% ]
yeah...totally. Hydra breaks 1000 training counts at Rank 4, as well as Elemental Wave. Golden Time (along with Elemental Wave) has one requirement through out, breaking 1000 counts at Rank 3.
Too lazy to look up the rest. Oh we have it already...meh.
Yes, some skills like Encore and Emergency Escape are ridiculously annoying to first of all get, and second of all train.
- Snap Cast is randomly obtained from using certain magic skills.
- Training may or may not be seen as spammy.
- Encore is randomly obtained from playing instrument and maybe singing.
- Encore is spam-training.
- Elemental Wave is randomly obtained from using Chain Cylinder. (Note that it has nothing to do with Chain Cylinder, and Chain Cylinder is also a randomly obtained skill.)
- Elemental Wave is spam-training.
- Golden Time is randomly obtained from using Elemental Wave (so it's a randomly obtained skill from using a randomly obtained skill from using another randomly obtained skill).
- Golden Time is spam-training.
- Festival Food is randomly obtained from cooking.
- Training is okay.
- Emergency Escape is randomly obtained from using Evasion. (Evasion isn't even in any of the three talents. . .)
- Emergency Escape is VERY spammy-training. If you train the skill nonstop, using the skill immediately as cooldown finishes and do not take break, it will take 69 and a half hours to get this skill to r1 (almost as long for master title which is crappy anyways). In addition, you have to use the skill with at least 1 aggro on you and multiple aggros are not multiple training, and monsters are not quick to re-aggro you after you de-trans.
So yes, they REALLY want you to spend NX on these talents to skip the obtain methods and train the skills more easily. Also note I only mentioned the randomly obtained skills, some other skills are also really annoying to train like Meteor Strike.
I'm sorry, I can't stop laughing at that amount of time...Non-stop...oh god that long? Bwahahha...ha.....ha....okay so remind me again, how much is a card?
A Zero card should cost about 1k nx more than a basic card if we don't get the rebirth update. If we do get the rebirth update, the card will be the same price but won't be usable for rebirth and we'll instead use 39 pons (if it is consistent with KR's prices) which is about 3.9k nx if it were possible to buy pons in bundles of 1s. Though, a Zero, Hero, and Elite Hero character all start with rF of the hero skills, which doesn't really make sense to me. Wouldn't they want to capitalize on selling new characters that come with like r9 Emergency Escape?
And to be honest, I feel like they're running out of ideas. For example, for Druid and Vate, they had plenty of ideas so they had a fourth skill which they had to keep out of the hero talent, in both cases a mastery skill. However, in Diva's case, Singing is more or less an active mastery skill like Playing Instrument is, they probably couldn't think of a fourth singing skill so they left Singing in the hero talent rather than the music talent. In Master Chef's case, Food Mastery is obviously a mastery, same case. On the other hand, Emergency Escape has nothing to do with making money, adventure, doing exploration, or guns. And on top of that, Exploration Mastery is obviously a mastery, so treasure hunter was really lacking.
Along with the Dream Update in KR, they made it so you can rebirth weekly regardless of age, and cards are no longer used for rebirth. (So they removed basic cards, and you have to pay 1k extra nx for a zero card to make a new character but it's worth it.) In addition, they also changed beginner benefits. They raised the beginner lvl to 1000, added a bunch of new quests items, shadow mission privilages starting lvl 50, etc. Along with the preexisting benefits of being able to reset skills at duncan and rebrith every 24 hours.
- So if you're under total 1k, rebirth once a day.
- Over lvl 1k, rebirth every 7 days.
This is an nerf in that you have to wait 7 days to rebirth now, you can't pay nx to rebirth every 6 days like you do now, but it's still better to wait an extra day and not have to pay. The 39 pon thing was added as compensation to this so unlikely we'd get the 39 pon thing if we don't get this.
Around the same time, JP also had a rebirth update where they kept card rebirthing and everything, but you now can rebirth every three weeks regardless of age. This is a buff in that free players rebirth to age 10 and get extra aging AP while still triweekly RBing, but it's a nerf in that you can't 2+1 rebirth anymore (two rebirths in three weeks).
In my opinion, unlikely we'd get either, though hopefuly we get KR's version and in my opinion, our version is better than JP's. And if we do get either, I doubt it would be generation-bound.
What about free rebirthing in their cases? I don't pay for cards.
Don't pay for cards or pons, don't get Hero talents. Only exception is the free card you start your account with, first ever talent can be a Hero talent, but you will only start with some of the hero skills, not all (a free diva starts with Singing and Encore but not Phantasmal Chorus) and you have to pay to maintain that talent if you rebirth. And if you choose a non-hero talent for your first talent oh well no hero talent for you without paying.
According the the Mabinogi-Saga micro-site:
"The Gunslinger Talent is also bringing 16 new Talent Titles, 8 new Master Titles, new tutorials, and new Grand master Quests to Erinn."
We don't appear to have any new talent titles that have gunslinger involved listed on the wiki. Do they even exist?
They probably do; it's just no one has bothered looking into it yet, probably.
Nope. They lied. Unless by "16 new Talent Titles" they meant "novice gunslinger, green gunslinger, so on..." Lololol. THEY DID.
Since skill exps turn out to be additive values, should we have the tables as they are right now? or the accumulated exp?
I will need an answer on this before I continue with this page because it'll be a lot of work to change it after I finish.
I personally prefer the accumulated EXP so if I wanted to calculate my exp, I could just look at table and rank rather than have to add all the previous values to find the exp for just that rank and repeat...
Why not move the race parameter to the left of the skill icons then make two parameters per skill icon? One for individual and one for total.
Because even just the current tables were a hell of a lot of work. Feel free to do that after I've finished the current tables.
Very well, I'll see what I can do later. How about just accumulated for now then?
So since the tables are sortable now (nice touch by the way), multiple spans would be questionable so just to test what would happen I put an identical second span to rest (top table) then hit the sort button for on of the parameters and it apparently reverted to one rowspan and cloned itself (middle table). So instead I suggest adding in parenthesis the increase since last rank (bottom table) and add a note at the top something along the lines of "The parentheses indicates increase since last rank, whereas outside is total accumulation." Although, this would add a bit of empty space to the skill icon parameter, we could always undo or change the 30px limitation on the skill icons to fill up the space. (Or we could leave the skill icon at 30 and add the name of the skill under it, but I'm not voting for anything.)
I like the parenthesis idea. About the whitespace, I'd prefer it if we just left it alone, and leave it at 30px; it's not much more whitespace created, although I don't really care about it.
Parenthesis seems so much better than making a whole nother chart.
Okay, I'll get started on it maybe tomorrow. But before I do, considering the width of the parameters on most screen resolutions it would automatically create a second line with just a space rather than a <br/> tag in between the accumulated and added values, should I add a <br/> tag anyways or just leave it out?
My comp can only turn on in safe mode at the minute and I've been spending my time trying to diagnose and fix that problem.
Kevin, I don't get you. Why would you agree with the idea and then decide to take it out?
NO YOU DUMMY, THE FOUR FUCKING VATES.
Remember back in Generation 12, "Four Vates" who saved Eabha from dying. Dorren, Lennox, Helvetius; the fourth one's unknown.
Oh. Then I have no clue what you're talking about; I don't pay attention to the storyline.
^What Infodude said.
And yes, I do assume this is the fourth vate mentioned in G12, though I wish it turned out Berched was also an alchemist and he was the fourth vate. =\ This vate's name is Professor J.
What does Vate mean irl and who's Prof J outside of Mabi, if one exists?
In Spanish, it means seer or prophet. other than that, it's probably a word devcat took and gave them the name on the spot or it just sounded awesome at the time of development.
if it matters, it also means a poet/bard in Italian o-o...though if you want to go and urbanize it...go with horrendous/hideous.
Well Merlin is based on mythical mage who fought against druids (hence him BEING a druid makes no sense. . .) and Boann the Diva is named after some goddess. Professor J probably has a counterpart too but we probably won't know unless they say what the J stands for.
The only J I know is Onose Jun, a japanese rock artist who goes by "J." maybe he's going by the name J for a reason?
I don't quite understand your point. There aren't multiple kinds of druids in mythology nor mabi.
- sigh* Was making a joke. It's like religion, yes I'm a Christian and he;s a Christian but he's the WRONG SORT of Christian, also he has that nice house and I want it :P
EDIT: Actually I'm sure there probably was a lot of hating of the other druids there always is in religion. EDIT2:Please don't make this into a religious debate. I was trying to make a joke.
A buddy of mine asked me for the quickest way to increase the adventure talent level
I didn't know, but i figured i could plug some numbers in a spreadsheet shown here to at least tell her the skill that would require the least amount of AP for the maximum amount of talent exp (finding it to be Campfire)
So, if i do this for the other talents, could i add my findings to this page?
I'd say having that information would be useful. Not sure how to format that, though...
Actually, I was doing this the other day for fighter talent. I do agree this is useful. We could just do endgame rank divided by total AP cost. (So if it's capped at r6, the amount of total exp that skill gives at r6 divided by the AP to get that) and put it after the r1 exp in the table.
You could add a 2nd row to each skill in the table, although that's a lot of work.
Heres the ones for Magic
If anyone wants to take that information and make an example on how to add it to a table, that would be great.
Lets say I'm a grandmaster archer and I switch my talent to warrior talent, and I then obtain grandmaster warrior. I'm aware I'll lose my archery grandmaster status, but if I switch back to archery talent and want to become a grandmaster archer again, will I have to get the 20 seals and gold letter again? Or is there just a simple switch grandmastery button?
OK, so, shortly after talents were added, I mastered fire mastery, and noticed a change in my talent exp. I wasn't far from bolt mastery, so I worked on it, recorded my talent exp before and after mastering bolt mastery, and noticed that there was indeed an increase in talent experience after mastering bolt mastery, HOWEVER the same did NOT happen when I mastered Thunder. (mage here btw working on master mage)
I'm working on mastering HailStorm to verify this better, but has anyone else checked this out?
Confirmed that it does give extra talent experience or confirmed that it doesn't?
I never got exp from mastering my fighter skills, so I'd assume confirmed it doesn't.
Maybe it's not specifically mastery, but filling out the training requirements.
I have fledgling Construct Alchemy with 2/3 of the talent exp bar filled and fledgling Battle Alchemy with about 3/10 of the bar filled, even though all the alchemy skills I have are ranked novice. I've finished the requirements for rank novice Synthesis, Mana Crystallization, Alchemy Mastery, Water Cannon and wind blast and half the requirement for Summon Golem. The rest of my alchemy skills haven't been started and I haven't even acquired Transmutation, Heat Buster, Frozen Blast, Flame Burst, Chain Cylinder, Sand Burst, or the alchemy element masteries.
Unless you get talent experience just for discovering a skill, you get a small amount for finishing the level up requirements.
You get Talent EXP for ranking a skill from N to F, but you do not gain talent EXP for mastering a skill. Not sure about Dan ranks, but I suspect they don't give any talent EXP either.
Its an added 50% of your current capture rate for trans diary(Ex: 10% becomes 15% on lycan) not an overall addition of 50% (Ex Lycan's 10% becoming 60%) I think it needs to be reworded because it's very misleading.
Base Stat refers to bonuses gained upon selecting the talent, without leveling or aging (hence Level Bonus & Age Bonus).
[] Vetran Trapper. I just got this one recently. o-o Wise archer, expert tailor, and apprentice carpenter.
Hey guys, I added a screenshot of all the Talent choices it gives you in game. Thought it was a great image that should be on this page somewhere, at the moment its sitting at the top of the list of Talents just above Adventurer. Feels slightly out of place being aligned all the way to the left and not being alphabetized but oh well