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Contents

Thread titleRepliesLast modified
Celtic Tetra Cylinder Blue Special Upgrade215:46, 29 September 2018
Page Order016:31, 27 September 2018
Celtic Weapons007:01, 24 April 2015
Cylinder614:56, 3 January 2015
Shuriken S vs R322:19, 31 July 2014
Devil Scythe R Type Bug?611:03, 5 December 2013
Gloomy sunday special upgrades222:47, 28 July 2013
Clarification for R Type+Dual Wield+WM?418:04, 16 May 2013
Equation on this page?001:34, 26 January 2013
S-Type and R-Type Comparison (One Handed Sword)1918:38, 3 September 2012
Doesn't the glow effect increase?214:30, 9 July 2012
Earthquake Cylinder R type112:50, 31 March 2012
Lance Special upgrades100:03, 22 January 2012
Shields819:02, 9 January 2012
Inventory106:58, 10 October 2011
Battle mandolin115:39, 31 May 2011
Dragon Blades and special upgrades?107:43, 28 January 2011
Chaincasting wand421:58, 21 January 2011
Ambiguous123:59, 20 January 2011
Goibne Stone?113:10, 20 January 2011
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Celtic Tetra Cylinder Blue Special Upgrade

The S type Special Upgrade of the Celtic Tetra Cylinder gets the exact same bonuses as the Tidal Wave, Volcano, Hurricane, and Earthquake Cylinders. Water Damage, Fire Damage, Barrier Spikes' HP and Frozen Blast duration, with the values copied from each one of the individual ones per rank. i.e. at Step 6 Blue, the Tetra Cylinder gets
Water damage +31
Fire Damage +19
Barrier Spikes' HP +370
Freezing Time +9sec
Not sure how it'd be best to add this to the table, without making it too long.

Iyasenu (talk)18:56, 5 September 2016

What if a column was added above the rest of them, that stretched from 'Water Cylinder' to 'Gospel Cylinder', and said in parenthesis (all effects)

so

(nothing) | Celtic Tetra Cylinder (All Effects) | 1h Axe | 1h Weapon | 2h Weapon | Wands & Staves | Water Cylinder | Fire Cylinders | Earthquake Cylinder | Hurricane Cylinder | Gospel Cylinder|

?

Bronzebreak (talk)15:32, 26 September 2018
 

Good idea Bronzebreak. EyesClosed I've made these changes but put the tetra on top so that the columns line up better visually.

Kadalyn (talk)15:46, 29 September 2018
 

Celtic Weapons

I heard Celtics, or at least the 2 handers, have unique special upgrades for at least 1 of the 2 types. Can we check that and add the new category if it's true?

Callback (talk)07:01, 24 April 2015

Demonic Hellfire and Abyss and Gospel aren't listed. What do they receive from special upgrades?

Infodude575 (talk)08:03, 2 January 2015

Hellfire and Abyss receive the same bonuses as Volcano and Tidal Wave respectively, no idea about gospel yet though. I suggest we change S type upgrades to list Water Cylinders instead of Tidal Wave, and do the same for Fire instead of Volcano.

Tharm (talk)09:15, 2 January 2015

Had a quick look on the forums, apparently, r-type is 62% crit damage at r6, s-type is +10 alchemical damage at s6. This seems feasible, though don't have any solid evidence so no guarantee that it's correct :/

Tharm (talk)09:28, 2 January 2015
 

Yeah, the line about Tidal Wave and Volcano, as well as the other elemental cylinders, should best be changed since there's multiple one-type elemental cylinders.

Infodude575 (talk)17:10, 2 January 2015

Well, it only needs to apply for Tidal Wave and Volcano. For the other elemental cylinders, there's only 1 of each type that can be spec upped (Earthquake and Hurricane) so for now, those can be left as is.

Tharm (talk)08:06, 3 January 2015
 

Inb4 future special upgradable wind and earth cylinders. Weren't there demonic versions of those as well as a neutral demonic that was unreleased?

Infodude575 (talk)09:48, 3 January 2015

They were in the code of a korea test build, but have never been released anywhere, they just use the tidal wave model with the stats of either the earthquake (for inner core) and hurricane (for the wind one I can't remember the name of). The neutral one was just a standard cylinder that would count as a demonic (still using tidal wave model)

Don't see it necessary to mention unreleased content such as that just yet, it'd probably just confuse people who look at the article

Tharm (talk)14:56, 3 January 2015
 
 
 
 

Shuriken S vs R

So I'm having a hard time understanding the comparison between S and R type special upgrades for Shuriken in regards to at what point it's better to R type one than to S Type it.

I understand that the S Type is the 2H bonus and the R Type is the 1H bonus, but could someone help me with the math to figure out the break even point for level 5 on this stuff? Also, what damage output are we talking about on normal hits vs critical hits at each level?

If it helps my damage with no other equipment is 303-475.

I apologize if it's a lot of math, but this will really help people out if anyone can chart it up for us.

Thank you in advance for any help that can be provided.

Necrojoker (talk)02:19, 30 July 2014

A shortcut should be to compare 14.5x(R-type bonus) to 3x(S-type bonus applied to your max damage with upgraded shuriken). (this is counting 10 hits with 30% critical hit rate)

The long, sure way would be to calculate min and max damage for 10 hits total, 3 of which are critical (7 normal, 3 crit) for each of the 2h S-type upgrades and the 1h R-type upgrades. Basically, if it's upgraded already, just add the R-type damage to yours with the shuriken. The S-type gives an added bonus to the critical damage (at rank 1 that's 250% total damage normally, at 2h s5 that's a total of 300%)

That's essentially the simplest way to check which is better for you. Your damage is high enough that the extra critical damage from the S-Type should overpower the flat damage bonus from R-Type. I recommend Excel or OpenOffice.org Calc to keep things organized.

Shroom Fonzerelli (talk)03:51, 30 July 2014

I'm always a bit iffy on the average damage since some mobs have rather high prot, reducing the crit rate, but at the same time ALL of the Ninja skills ignore prot for crit calculation. That being said I have an R5 Lich Crocodile Anju's Shuriken now.

Necrojoker (talk)01:15, 31 July 2014
 

According to my math you need 518 or greater max attack for R5 shurikens to be better than S5 shurikens. This goes for anything else that uses two hand values for S upgrade but 1 hand value for R upgrades. If you want the turning point for other special upgrade levels let me know.

EDIT: In reality the turning point is actually slightly lower due to balance not working the way most people thought it did but at this point the difference should be neglible.

Mystickskye (talk)22:16, 31 July 2014
 

Devil Scythe R Type Bug?

I've R type upgraded my Devil Scythe and at step 3, it only provides and additional 18% critical damage. With this, I am assuming it is considered a One-Handed Weapon for R type yet still a Two-Handed Weapon for enchants since I have the Violent enchant on it. I have yet to S type upgrade a Devil Scythe.

Sushiforyou (talk)23:41, 3 December 2013

It's considered 1 handed, despite obviously being held in two hands...at lesat for R-type. S-Type, I'm not sure but I would assume would be the same. I had an R5 (Worse investment ever btw...I want my stones back ._. . . .) and blew it up at an attempt at 6.

ベリサ・マイルスター (talk)00:42, 4 December 2013
 

Ehh although I can no longer check my damage with mine, can you see if it's just a visual bug? Also if you do fail/succeed while adding another stone, check the numbers again.

ベリサ・マイルスター (talk)00:47, 4 December 2013

I'm not sure how I would be able to check the damage precisely since there a many damage modifiers involved. Care to help?

Sushiforyou (talk)01:04, 4 December 2013
 

oh yeah...well you could just find a few foxes, take your max and multiply it by smash rank's modifier...so say your max is 238, multiply it by 500% (5x) and get that number, then multiply that by critical rank (probably 1, so 1.5x). To check for R-Type Damage, use the same numbers but change the critical bonus form 1.5x to 1.68 (150%+18%), and that roughly gives you maximum damage that would be done. of course that's all in a perfect world with where everything is 0% and you can always hit your maximum damage...either that or find another one with the same stats and/or reforges, and do a few averages that way. If you know what's your average smash damage on critical, shouldn't be hard to see a nearly 20% difference.

I suck at math so if I wrong...correct me now. Of course, the faster (though risker) way to confirm it's one handed damage bonus or not is to special upgrade it again. Do that at your own risk, unless you can spare that much.

ベリサ・マイルスター (talk)01:17, 4 December 2013
 

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Return to Thread:Talk:Special Upgrade/Devil Scythe R Type Bug?/reply (5).

 

Evidence is pretty concrete as is and all signs points to 1 handed damage with the use of two handed enchants. :c Sad day for D. Slayers. Gonna see if anyone I know blue stoned theirs or not.

ベリサ・マイルスター (talk)21:57, 4 December 2013
 
 

Gloomy sunday special upgrades

Do they really simply add crit damg / base damg?... if so... what exactly makes the Gloomy Sunday good again?

unless people really like discord O.o;

Kizuurei (talk)21:56, 28 July 2013

Demonic Gloomy Sunday's Music Buff Effect upgrades aren't as good as the Lyre's, however, it comes with Music Buff Effect without the need for upgrades so it totals out to having more music buff effect than the Lyre. The special upgrades is not what makes Demonic Gloomy Sunday special, it's just a nice thing to have if you plan on using Dischord or regular melee with your instrument.

Pyro - (Talk)22:11, 28 July 2013
 

This is how I've set up my Demonic Gloomy Sunday. Just need to replace Moderato with Harmony to make it perfect. (And maybe push for the last blue upgrade).

Kiyoura (talk)22:41, 28 July 2013
 

Clarification for R Type+Dual Wield+WM?

Confused about the stacking crit. On the Wiki page it specifically states that "When dual wielding R-Type weapons, the critical damage bonuses will add together when using single hit skills (i.e. using smash with 2 3R swords would give +36% critical damage)."

So does this mean that when you WM, it only uses the R bonus for 1 of your weapons? Or does this mean it averages it out?

Or does WM in fact use both of the S upgrades for 'double' damage?

Searched all over wiki/google/threads etc...couldn't find a specific post that led me to an answer - hoping for some clarification - thanks!

(BTW if this is the wrong place to post this I'm sorry - not sure how Wiki's work beyond "Type and search" lol)

Addadd (talk)22:07, 19 April 2013

Windmill is a single hit skill that can hit multiple targets at the same time.

When it says "single hit" it means as opposed to two hits, one from each sword. In other words, any time the two swords are used at the same time.

Doomsday31415 (talk)01:24, 20 April 2013

So are you saying that if you dual wield R type swords, the crit chance for each of them WILL add together for WM? Want clarification - a for 'certain' answer if you will, for me and anyone else who happens upon this in the future >.<

Addadd (talk)08:07, 20 April 2013
 

I don't have a certain answer. I don't have R type swords.

I can tell you, though, that smash and windmill follow the same rules for damage calculation.

Doomsday31415 (talk)09:33, 20 April 2013
 

First of all, by your wording, I'm thinking you're confused about what R upgrade does. R upgrades don't raise the critical chance, but rather, adds effect to the mutiplier. (At r1 crit, you'll get 42% added to the 250% multiplier at R6 one handed weapon. When using skills, another 42% will stack if you're dual wielding, giving you 334% bonus)

It uses both of the R bonuses when both are R upgraded (2 R6 battle swords will give 84% critical bonus instead of 42%)

If you use a R sword and a S sword, then it will follow the dual wielding damage equation (S bonus added to the equation) plus the 42% when you crit, assuming it's R6 (see dualwielding page for more info.)

If you use both S, then you'll get the S bonus (both of them) added them into the dual wielding equation.

In your character window, the critical bonus (this is from the weapon itself, not the multiplier added from the R upgrade) will average out. This is noticeable with enchants. For example, assume that you're dual wielding two swords and at 80% crit. If you put Lizard enchant on one of the swords, you'll get 5 crit bonus on your character screen because only one sword is enchanted. If you get both enchanted with Lizard, then you'll get the 10 crit bonus.

On your character window, if your weapons have different S level and you're dual wielding them, the damage bonus will average out, but in skill equation, both damages will still apply.

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) (talk)18:04, 16 May 2013
 

Equation on this page?

Who made it and on what basis? By my thinking it's incorrect and the damage figures are well off what I get. I get similar figures to Inemnitable's further down on this page and I've double checked my equations so I'm inclined to side with myself and Inemnitable.

Mystickskye (talk)01:34, 26 January 2013

S-Type and R-Type Comparison (One Handed Sword)

So as I was preparing for G13, I was numbercrunching involving both types, and saw that S-Type weapons seem to come on top always (well with 1-handed weapons anyways). If anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but it would seem that S-Types would be much better on swords. Data:

  • This data assumes Rank 1 Critical Hit on all data and Smash on the last row. It also assumes Critical Hit is activated.
  • Formula I used (assumes no defence and either maximum or minimum, may be incorrect) ( ( Normal Damage + S-Type Damage Bonus ) * 5 ) * ( 250% + R-Type Critical Bonus (In %) )
    • The Bonus is only for one or the other. If smash is not used, change 5 in the first part to 1.
  • No upgrades of either type has 42-125 with 2.5 Critical Modifier
  • 3 Upgrades on R-Type has 42-125 Damage with 2.68 Critical Modifier, S-Type has 48-138 Damage with 2.5 Critical Modifier
  • 6 Upgrades on R-Type has 42-125 Damage with 2.92 Critical Modifier, S-Type has 57-156 Damage with 2.5 Critical Modifier
  • Data is rounded up to the nearest Whole number.
R-Type S-Type
3 Upgrades, Normal Hit 113-335 120-345
6 Upgrades, Normal Hit 123-365 143-390
6 Upgrades, Smash 613-1825 713-1950

In Conclusion, S-Type weapons seem to do more damage, both inside and outside of critical hits. If anyone wants to point out a mistake in my data, feel free to let me know.

Marthian12:37, 1 January 2011

If I had 300 base max damage and used a 75 damage broad sword +6S would be 401 Damage and 1002 critical damage (max). +6R would be 375 base max damage and 1095 base critical damage. Critical only becomes better as the base damage becomes extremely high, and R type only ends up being a lot better on 2 handers and bows.

Do note that only certain weapons can receive the special upgrade in the first place.

Tellos13:02, 1 January 2011
 

Ok thanks for that information, although I don't really see a lot of people with THAT high of max damage unless their in trans, using ego 2h/bow+high dex. I am not really aware of only certain weapons can get the special upgrade. Also, I was using a broadsword for my information (upgraded on highest critical though). It might be useful if we could maybe make a graph outlining how much each Type affects damage as you do more damage, so we could see where they even up and then where the other type becomes better

Marthian13:38, 1 January 2011
 

Players with capped str using an Oblivion set have 300 base damage. Players with capped dex and the same set have about 400 base.

Tellos13:44, 1 January 2011

Can you tell me what this oblivion set is?

Marthian08:31, 17 January 2011
 

Its an enchant set that gives ~120 max.

Tellos09:37, 17 January 2011

probably not going to tell me, but what exactly is the enchants?

Marthian18:19, 19 January 2011
 

Oblivion. I thought that'd be obvious. r9 prefix with +10 max that you spam on everything except the glove.

Tellos07:22, 20 January 2011

I don't see this Oblivion enchant anywhere.

Marthian13:11, 20 January 2011
 
 
 
Edited by 2 users.
Last edit: 18:38, 3 September 2012

Here you go. Above the break even point, R does more damage on average.


S/R Break Even Points (Max Before Special Upgrade)

1 Handed Axes 1 Handed Weapons 2 Handed Weapons Dual Wield (Single Hit Base)
1 360 346 369 346
2 321 327 364 327
3 313 323 362 323
4 315 328 355 328
5 316 330 352 330
6 316 331 349 331
Inemnitable02:09, 13 January 2011
 

thank you for the chart. However, remember that you are not guaranteed a critical hit, while the min and max damage increase you are guaranteed. It depends on your critical chance, so those with low critical might be better off with S type whilst those with high critical could go with R type

Marthian09:52, 29 January 2011
 

This chart assumes a 30% critical rate, and incorporates that rate into the calculation of average damage.

Inemnitable23:34, 29 January 2011
 

Does it incorporate the R effect stacking in dual wield?

Tellos23:38, 29 January 2011
 

Yes, that's why I made a Dual Wield (Single Hit Base) column. If R effect didn't stack, the numbers in that column would be twice as high.

Inemnitable23:53, 29 January 2011
 

I know it assumes 30% chance, but some monsters can really make it hard to do critical hits on.

Marthian17:07, 10 February 2011
 

Certain skills ignore protection for calculating crit, though.

Inemnitable20:38, 10 February 2011
 

yeah I forgot. still I guess it just depends on playstyle. If I had better str and enchants, I'd probably change my mind. But even all that aside, as I said before, the increased damage from S Type is guaranteed, while the bigger increase from R Type occurs during criticals, which still have a ~30% chance of occuring on max crit.

Marthian21:08, 10 February 2011

Yeah regardless of which one does more damage during a crit, it's still, at max, a 30% chance....and w/o a crit the S type obviously does more damage. So 70% of the time it does more damage and when you DO get a crit with it, it's not a lot lower than an R type.

DANTE20XX10:15, 9 July 2012
 

Really old thread, but with S, you may be doing more damage passively, but with R, you're doing % more damage. S5 vs R5 on let's say a 2h weapon.

+39 max vs +50% damage. Chances are, the 50% damage is a hell of a lot more than just the +39 max.

 

Yeah but again...30% of the time if that. I don't know how that's debatable or why you replied to it :)

DANTE20XX17:51, 9 July 2012
 
 

Doesn't the glow effect increase?

As in doesn't it glow even MORE past level 3 blue or red? I was pretty sure the glow was stronger at either +5 or +6, but there's nothing on the wiki about it. Seems most noticeable with swords.

DANTE20XX10:10, 9 July 2012

It does increase at +5, not sure if it boosts even more at 6 though.

Zugon (Talk | contribs)12:00, 9 July 2012
 
 

Earthquake Cylinder R type

Does this really add crit damage? I'm assuming that since there isn't a special entry for it, but it seems surprising to me if so. I would assume it did something fancy like a golem HP buff.

Kadalyn04:19, 4 March 2012

>Sand Burst

Deletion12:50, 31 March 2012
 

Lance Special upgrades

What do R and S type lance special upgrades increase? anyone know? o:

Fishstickys20:56, 30 April 2011

Same as two-handed. Damage and Crit Damage.

Marith00:03, 22 January 2012
 

I was recently told by a friend that shields are also special upgradable. Apparently, not only will the shield glow, but your clothes will glow as well whenever it is either 3rd or 5th level. Can someone confirm this?

Haven92305:40, 30 December 2011

Shields are not special upgradable.

Zugon (Talk | contribs)06:33, 30 December 2011
 

You can only SU weapons.

Infodude57508:59, 30 December 2011
 

I was told by a Nexon employee that you can special upgrade a composite shield. I'm proffing one now to test it. just gotta jem upgrade then we're set.

Haven92301:47, 6 January 2012
 

Maybe they meant Artisan Upgrade?

Pyro - (Talk)02:08, 6 January 2012
 

No, special upgrade with upgrade stones. As sated in OP, it causes more than just the shield to glow. Again, I'm probably going to finish proffing tomorrow and will find out weather I got trolled or not by Nexon >.<

Haven92302:19, 6 January 2012
 

Just put the shield on the SU Anvil, if it says it can't be Special Upgraded then that's so, if it says that it need a Jewel Upgrade first, then it can be.

Zugon (Talk | contribs)04:15, 6 January 2012
 

Ok, after I tried it for myself then told my friend he appologized and said that he did it to his dragon shield. Being as I traded my dragon shield for my composite, I can't test this. If anyone has a gem upgraded dragon shield, could you test this?

Haven92317:53, 9 January 2012
 

It. Is. Impossible. To. Special. Upgrade. A. Shield. That is all.

 

Shouldn't we add information on where a Special Upgraded item could be placed? (Not in Pet Invs, in Quest Inv, etc.)

Pyro - (Talk)00:05, 10 October 2011

Yes.

Angevon (Talk)06:58, 10 October 2011
 

Battle mandolin

It says available for special upgrade on this page, but on it's own page it says not available for special upgrade?

Wikiacc0101:43, 31 May 2011

All fixed.

κєνıи тαıĸ«)15:39, 31 May 2011
 

Dragon Blades and special upgrades?

is it possible to upgrade a db with special upgrades?

LawLies21:25, 27 January 2011

No.

Tellos07:43, 28 January 2011
 

Chaincasting wand

Can it remove my chaincast ??

Gaby501105:30, 15 January 2011

No

Tellos09:35, 17 January 2011
 

But what it mean when it say that we can lose an upgrade...?

Gaby501121:48, 21 January 2011
 

You can lose a Special upgrade. Say you already have one, and you failed, you will go back to 0 special upgrades. Nothing else change.

κєνıи тαıĸ«)21:49, 21 January 2011
 

Ohh ok, ty :)

Gaby501121:58, 21 January 2011
 

At the moment the articles says "You can perform the upgrade a maximum of 3 times." Now does this mean you're only allowed to attempt it 3 times or does it mean that you can try as many times as you want until you get to an upgrade level of 3? Also this isn't really ambiguous in the article, but after you start doing special upgrades, that specific equipment can no longer be put on pets and can only go in the bank right?

Blargel23:18, 20 January 2011

It means your weapon can reach a maximum of +3. You can use as many attempts to get +3, but once it's +3, it stays there until next update.

Miyuna23:59, 20 January 2011
 

Goibne Stone?

I was wondering what the exact purpose of the Goibne stone was. On the special upgrade page, it states directly .. "To perform a special upgrade you must have a weapon that has all 5 upgrades, as well as the jewel upgrade and have used the Goibne Stone on it."

But I have yet to see one, and I have already put on the first R-type Upgrade onto my Francisca. Will I need to find this stone to further upgrade it, or is it some other purpose entirely?

LordSteve13:09, 20 January 2011

To simply clarify... I did not use the stone Goibne stone in any way. It was not necessary to put on the R-Type upgrade or any process leading up to it

LordSteve13:10, 20 January 2011
 
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