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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Windmill"

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(Auto-Mill: new section)
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== Auto-Mill ==
 
== Auto-Mill ==
  
I found an easier method where you click and hold outside your windmill range (cursor should have an "X" now), then move the cursor into the windmill range(which activates the "no target in range). Also, unlike the "press the mouse button before loading the skill", this can be done either when the skill is loading or ready to be activated. Same concept, and can be easily done. Not sure if its susceptible to lag however.
+
I found an easier method where you click and hold outside your windmill range (cursor should have an "X" now), then move the cursor into the windmill range(which activates the "no target in range). Also, unlike the "press the mouse button before loading the skill", this can be done either when the skill is loading or ready to be activated. Same concept, and can be easily done. Not sure if its susceptible to lag however. -- Teoh

Revision as of 01:34, 25 October 2009

Duel-wielding doing more windmill dmg?

I never noticed until now but it does more damage. Maybe I was too stupid to notice but here's what i found out: using 1 hooked cutlass i was doing between 90-100 dmg on zombies but w/ two cutlasses i was doing 140s. this is w/ r2 wm. can someone please test this? -- Bloopergman

um... duh? Read the dualweild page(specifically the part about skills). It explains everything you should already know, including what you're asking about now.--Sozen Cratos Focker 00:04, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Ew

I don't think we need to have two seperate sections. It just makes it more confusing. Lets put the giants with the humans and elves using the format that has already been provided. Also, can we start cleaning up the talk pages? All the talk pages are starting to look REALLY messy --Sinnoaria 20:53, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

However, we might be able to combine the human and giant costs and effects cus they are the same as well as the stat boosts.

Throwing the Elf and Giant information into the already existing 'Summary' Chart just looks like crap.

We need to make separate charts for each race. All the information on one chart is confusing, tedious, and overall, ugly. I'll take the elf information that is already there, and make a separate chart. ~Rusty~

Leave it. It's not that confusing. --Aussie♣

Elf and giant training

The elves and giants have different ranking requirements than humans. --Sinnoaria 17:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

If someone could compile that information it'd be great for all the elves and giants out there. --Dysprosium 12:56, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Misc

"*Many skills can be loaded while the player is still in the spinning animation phase of Windmill. (eg. Defense, Ranged Combat Mastery)"

Ranged Combat Mastery? It should be changed to just "ranged combat" I think. Or are we suddenly changing ranged combat mastery into an active skill? I'm confused on that. --- Angevon


Hmm, we decided to categorize Range Combat Mastery into an active skill because it needs to be "used" to shoot arrows, whereas Melee Combat Mastery is never "used". As for the name, we should probably change it to whatever the client has (I forget at the momement) --Reverie 23:13, 31 January 2008 (PST)


Watch this video for some examples of windmill invincibility: Two Person Sandworm
It is an example of perfect windmill timing in order to nullify the sandworm's charge directly overhead each time. (Notice especially how at 18 seconds the horse is hit, but not the player, who is still in the last frames of windmill's spin) --Reverie 02:08, 18 February 2008 (PST)

I'm training Windmill (Rank A) in KR Test right now and the "However, when training multiple strong kills/hits, only one of the targets must be strong" comment is not true. I'm killing Strong mixed with Awful, four at once, and not getting the multiple kills credit. --- Angevon

I'll clarify this a bit. The strongest enemy in the group that you have killed is treated as the rank that is counted - for example, if you killed 3 strongs and an awful, they would count as 4 awfuls. 3 normals and 1 strong would count as 4 strongs. --Reverie 18:43, 20 February 2008 (PST)

it says the radius increases with sprite size, does that mean a 25 year old char has a larger radius than a 10 year old char? and if so would drinkilg the 17 year old age potion at age 10 increase my radius? and does being fat have anny efect on radius?

I believe this refers to how giants are supposed to have a larger range than humans/elves, though for all I know, this hasn't been implemented in NA --FFVIISephy 11:25, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

whats radius and range?

it says that there is a diference between windmills radius and its range, annyone care to explain what that diference is?

Range is how far the windmill goes out. It's the same for everyone with Windmill, and changes at rank 5 and 1. Radius is how far it goes out based on model size. Although a Golem's WM range is the same as a player's, it seems to have a bigger range since the Golem is so much larger itself. --- Angevon
I'll help, how about we say that the "Radius" is how far out enemies will be hit, and the "Range" is how close they have to be to the character to activate the skill. Frjam

so, only range increases at ranks 5 and 1, and range stays the same?Sozen Cratos Focker 10:51, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

They technically the same thing: How much area WM covers -- Fruitrecruit
Not really. Range is affected by the rank of the skill. Radius is affected by the model size of the character. --Kevin 04:29, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

so does a 17 year old have a larger wm radius than a 10 year old? Sozen Cratos Focker 04:49, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I think to clarify this, examples are needed.
The RANGE of a rank F windmill is the same for everyone and everything. However, a smaller sprite will have a smaller RADIUS than a larger sprite.
Using an Age 17 Potion at age 10 will increase the RADIUS of the windmill.
Likewise, using an Age 10 Potion at age 17 will decrease the RADIUS.
Another way to look at it is this: Although the RANGE of Windmill is different for ranks F and 5, a 10-year-old with rank 5 windmill will have roughly the same RADIUS as a Paladin/Dark Knight with rank F~6 Windmill. --Zephyre 21:07, 22 February 2009 (PST)
wow, this was posted here less than a week after i gave up on wating for a real answer... Sozen Cratos Focker 06:27, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


Also, it can be noted that at rank 5, an elf age 11 still has more range than an age 17 giant with r9 wm (probably only by 1 mm/pixel). The further range was tested earlier this week (shortly after aging up), but not the exact distance. --Sinnoaria 06:18, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


Can we get a clear explanation of this on the main skill page? It doesn't make any sense to mention that there's a difference between range and radius without explaining what that difference is. --Inemnitable 19:26, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


i was kinda hoping whoever answered my question here would think of that and do it, but they didn't, so i guess i will...Sozen Cratos Focker 19:30, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


Okay okay hold your horses. Here is the simplest description between Range VS Radius. First, we need a new term, "wm distance" for clarity. WM distance is the "range/radius" you can hit things in.

RANGE is the BOOST/MODIFIER for WM. This is obviously determined by the skill (and thus 'same for everyone'). Look at the table, the ranges are 100%, 120%, and 150%. Notice they are percent values, not an actual measurement of distance.

RADIUS is your BASE WM distance. This is the actual measurement of distance (this changes based on model size, larger the model, the larger the radius).

The final WM distance is determined by RADIUS * RANGE.

I am editing out the current misinformation on the wm page. I am an extensive wm user, and there is no difference between activation distance and the distance you can reach, they are one and the same.

--Sephiros 00:55, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually I have very rarely noticed times when a stationary enemy just beyond the activation distance of my WM gets hit when the WM itself goes off. In the most recent case though the enemy was a Giant Bandersnatch so I'm wondering if this has to do with the enemy's hitbox. Regardless, I feel it warranting a mention.--Mystickskye 02:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

To end this, radius is changeable by your characters size. Range is added from the edge of your character.

Wait a second. Why does the chart say the RADIUS increases with rank, if the only thing that's supposed to increase is the RANGE? --Doomsday 04:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
In terms of mathematics the "range" here is actually circumradius of area + constant range of wm, the area varis to character volume divided by base height. Thus the circumradius of area can change, but not the radius (which is the actual meaning of range in the article). The "radius" in chart means the (total radius - circumradius of area) = constant number.--恒升  评论  09:02, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Did someone extract this information from the game Data? It seems kind of bogus to me. Wouldn't it make more sense from a programming standpoint to set the range to a constant value by rank and simply adjust the radius to compensate for the varying hitboxes of the different races? --Inemnitable 12:38, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Image Galleries.

Do we really need all these image galleries of different people doing windmill, smash, and other skills?

No, but i don't feel strongly enough about it to bother deleting them all, especially since it will probably devolve into an edit war.--Jacobpaige 06:08, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry for posting the pictures... Dx I just thought that pictures would attract some people who don't play Mabinogi to come and play. Just like when you flip through a magazine, only the ads with pictures catch your eyes. --Lloyd 13:37, 22 August 2008.

the invulnerability and stun on defense

will these ever be changed in future patches? it seems that WM should NOT stun enemies using defense and that the invulnerability is a coding error.

No, it doesn't stun them in defense. When you wm a monster in defense, it's like defending an attack. It has nothing to do with stunning. As for the invulnerability, it's not that big of a deal and it's really, really time-based. You'll only be invulnerable for a second and then it's over. It's not removed in JP Mabi, so it might be purposely set there. -Mix 20:48, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
The invulnerability is kinda needed. Other wise in a mob you would be in mid spin and something will attack you. Skill is useless if thats what will happen in a mob. Especially since it would be like that for humans. One person will trigger your mill and others will fire at you as you are spinning. The invincibility helps you load another skill. And if you windmill something in defense it uses a timer. Since it can't attack you right away it waits for a bit. If you try to attack it right away it will attack automatically, so it's better to load windmill again, or run. --Trickybomb 22:13, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
I've seen people with fast enough connections exploit the WM invulnerability to never get hit =/. As for "it's like defending an attack. It has nothing to do with stunning." If you windmill someone in defense they are unable to reload a skill instantly or attack both of which i would call stunned.
After you defend a windmill, you can load a skill, but you can't use it or attack the monster/person using windmill because they're invincible and are not even target-able. That's why monsters don't attack right away after defending a windmill, they can't target players.

well, im prety sure the invincibility is suposed 2 b there, and i think it might not realy b stunning them, but they could be programed 2 w8 4 the invincibility 2 stop. but if it is stuning, then its the type of stun u get wen u hit someone who is defending(since windmill is actualy a defensive skill), not the type u get wen ure hit, so its not the kind thats stopped by the defence skill.Sozen Cratos Focker 03:18, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Clarification? When you windmill a target in defense, most of them just run up to you and stop and stare at you. If you try Smash, Normal Attack, Assault (?), Final Hit(?) you will get hit also, any move thats direct contact with the enemy. You're invincible until you totally recover from the WM animation, but for some reason the monsters cannot attack you immediately. Some exceptions are the Small Black Golem (ciar adv) and Bugbear. They both cheat. However, if a target windmills you in defense, you can't retaliate fast enough because of its invincibility to be able to strike first. It will strike you first, if it tries to strike with normal attack. (This includes arena players). --Fruitrecruit


explosions violateing invincibility?

has annyone actualy confirmed this? it seems like someone just said this after getting hit by the explosion from a skeleton he windmilled that exploded pefore he finished spinning, when he thought the invincibility lasts during the entire spinning animation(it does not). It would be hard to test that though... Sozen Cratos Focker 04:44, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

I did confirm that your still invincible from the Escape Bomb and Fireball explosions. ~ Shadowboy132

i meant the self destructing monster explosions that the page says violate the invincibility rule. Sozen Cratos Focker 03:10, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I tried several different timings with (r1) windmill on dugald castle sprites, rabbie adv, and barri adv; got blasted every time. -- Ladywinter 21:32, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
could you explain what you mean by "timings"?
the only way to test this would be to have a friend or pet finish an exploding monster while u have windmill loaded, and use it at the moment that monster dies, so that the explosion is at the exact moment when you start spinning. pretty hard cause u'd usually get owned wile waiting with wm loaded.--Sozen Cratos Focker 03:00, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
As far as I know, this was pulled over from the JP wiki when this wiki was originally pulled together (in case you guys don't know, a lot of the "original" material on here was taken from the JP wiki, the foundation of this wiki wasn't put together from the experiences of NA players in the Na server). So the precedent is fairly high.--Mystickskye 07:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


anybody know exactly how long the invincibility lasts anyway? Sozen Cratos Focker 03:10, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Estimating: About 2 or 3 seconds. ~ Shadowboy132

it's much less than that. --Sozen Cratos Focker 19:43, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

i wm killed one of those pic mobs in the duglad castle dungeon and it owned me...~Ryonyx

The Rank Requirement Issue.

Rank C training description is wrong. Mine states: Attack a same level enemy Kill a same level enemy Kill a strong enemy Kill an awful enemy Training method unknown Kill multiple strong monsters. Considering I have killed multiple strong monsters and have not received the attack multiple strong monsters, it's assumed it's counter with WM. Someone please check and change description [re-editing my post now cus I forgot to sign, ignore the time statement lol]Novaix 23:03, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I think the training for humans, at minimum, was altered somehow, for Rank 7 I don't have any "attack multiple strong monsters" entry, visible or hidden. Also, I think that "Attack multiple strong monsters" in Rank 8 (possibly earlier) got replaced by "Counter with Windmill" without changing the training description - I didn't get any points for that part until I did the counter unintentionally. --Duet 21:42, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
It's an error of sorts that's been in there for a while. I reported it quite some time ago at the mabiworld forums but nothing was done about it. Ranking WM on my Giant, I found it again at r3. So far it always seems to be the "Attack multiple strong" requirement that's "replaced" with "Counter with WM", even at ranks that should have both.--Mystickskye 06:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps due to windmill's legendary difficulty they toned it down a bit?Novaix 23:03, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, everything else for Rank 7 is the exact same as listed, so all this really did was increase the number of single-monster kills needed... Not by a lot, but it's still not reducing difficulty, at any rate. --Duet 00:03, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Giant WM Rank 3 **Amended - WM not counting Glitch?**

Okay I mentioned this before but despite there being "Attack multiple powerful enemies" and "Defeat multiple powerful enemies", the former is incorrect due to my count for both being 0/16 and 1/12 respectively. However, unlike the times this happens with Human WM, Counter with WM isn't the correct training condition either. Anyone know what it is?--Mystickskye 12:46, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd take a guess and say "defeat multiple strong enemies"? Not sure myself.Novaix 22:31, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
"powerful" is "strong". The in-game descriptions now differ somewhat from the previous descriptions (I'll get around to changing the descriptions in the wiki as such). At any rate, it turns out that for some reason the "Attack multiple powerful enemies" simply wasn't registering whilst "Defeat multiple powerful enemies was". I have run into this before but I'm not sure what causes it. It's counting now but it's a puzzling glitch. The only thing that was the same in both cases was that I had just ranked up WM but there have been cases where just ranking it didn't cause this problem either.--Mystickskye 02:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
i had that same problem. i think it was some time while i was on one of the ranks from 9-3.--Sozen Cratos Focker 05:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, because I recall at some rank I killed a bunch o them without getting the attack requirement. I then proceeded to get the kill multiples on my elf AND got the attack multiples, so it must be a typo and not a glitch.Novaix 22:05, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
This is happening for my human at rank 8. Defeat counted, but attack didn't. ---Angevon 00:46, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Eh, question

Yea I sound like a noob here >.>.... How exactly do you counterattack with windmill? Load counterattack while in windmill animation, and then use it?--♫ѕτя♪ (I can't find an "a" D:) 20:56, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

There's a fairly concise description on the Windmill page... which now that I go over needs some cleaning up. To answer your question though, I quote:
"Players can execute a counter attack with Windmill by preparing the skill while being knocked down (usually against a wall) by an opponent. As soon as the skill is finished loading, it will automatically execute as long as a target is within range. This is how to fulfill the "counter with windmill" requirement on the earlier ranks."
Hope that helps.--Mystickskye 21:06, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
Have a wolf hit you against a wall and load it while he hits you, like tap the wm HK. Wuberfeca
I would recommend a Red Spider instead, since there not really fast and they dont die easily. :P ~ Shadowboy132
So... "it will automatically execute as long as..." Automatically? I don't even have to click on the ground if I'm countering with windmill, it'll just go off on it's own? Hoenheim
Yes, I'm fairly sure that's what automatic means.--Mystickskye 03:20, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Range & Radius

Range and Radius on the Summary Chart.
What is the difference? They sound like the same thing to me, and if they are, they're not very proportional.
If 300 is 100%, 400 is 133% (100 is 1/3rd of 300, 1/3=33.33 repeating). 500 radius would then have to be 166%, unless you're trying to percent it off of 400 radius/133%, which I wouldn't know how to do.
So can anyone explain what the difference is, and if there is none, probably fix the chart, or remove radius or range; whichever is the one that is wrong. Just a small gripe, no means to bug anyone about this, but thanks anyways. ~Rusty~

Radius vs Range is explained above. Kong 04:44, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

R7 Training?

I have rank 7 windmill and I don't have the "Attack multiple strong monsters simultaneously" training method. The training points only goes up to 320. I am human by the way. -Greensypurps

Possible G7 change? Picture plox? --Skynet 18:39, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
Please read the rest of the page, this has been an issue of sorts for some time.--Mystickskye 06:26, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I have the screenshot right here if you needed the proof: Media:r7wmtrainingmethods.jpg --Greensypurps 08:25, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeh, it's probably cuz you need to activate it. I thought I didn't have "Attack multiple strong monsters simultaneously" either at first.--imKrazy 19:21, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

No, if it had to be activated, it would say "Unknown Training Method." The section for it is completely gone. I'm guessing they just removed it as a method. ---Angevon 19:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Did they ever fix the other ranks? There were several ranks that went a bit like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/MystickSkye/mabinogi/mabinogi_2008_12_28_001.jpg

The "attack several strong enemies" requirement actually turned out to be "Counter with WM".--Mystickskye 00:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I had r8 yesterday. They haven't fixed that yet. ---Angevon 04:07, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
It wouldn't be quite so problematic if it were just r8 but it happens at multiple ranks... off the top of my head, rB has the same problem.--Mystickskye 05:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

organising and pruning

This details section takes up my entire screen, and for people with older computers, probably 2 screens. I can't imagine a newbie trying to read that whole thing. I'm gonna do to this what I did to the final hit page. --Sozen Cratos Focker 03:46, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Milling Defense

From my own personal experience, it is no longer safe to windmill a monster's defense in the vast majority of cases. The only class of monsters I can think of that tends not to hit me before I can charge another windmill (rank 1) is non-armored (pirate) skeletons. Suggest editing this part of the details section to reflect AI changes. --Inemnitable 10:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Video

Firstly, the video won't load (might just be my computer). Secondly, I fail to see how it helps. Doesn't everyone except players just starting have the skill? And they can obtain it easily. What's the point in having a video at all? If so, can we at least keep the picture.Novaix 08:16, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

(Digress:Asking that is like asking why the DFO World Wiki has Ghost Slash video streaming from KR website that loads a hell lot slower than mediafire even though you get it as your first skill)The goal is to have a video with every skill. The skill animations show (esp. beginners) what skill something/one is using. I remember someone came up to me when i was wming in ciar normal and asked me what skill that was. What picture? I've never seen any for windmill. Remember that you can also use animated .gif files that loops forever. Don't forget the two different animations with the weapons. Also, what your connection speed?.--Hengsheng120(talkcontribs) 08:21, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Connection speed won't make a bit of difference, the player's returning a "Video not found" error. -Duet 01:11, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
You must be able to access www.mediafire.com, it works for me and it's public file. this is permanent link http://download149.mediafire.com/2xtupbpdt0xg/tm2ymfz1odz/get_video_video_id_IIMiyuHfA4A.flv for video you should be able to download it. The only way I can duplicate your error is by changing this url randomly. Also i'd like your report on the other videos.--Hengsheng120(talkcontribs) 01:32, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
I guess you have to download the video to be able to watch it? Trying to play it without downloading will return the "Video not found" error. Makes no sense to have it up to me then. Personally, if there are going to be videos on the wiki I would prefer to not have to download them to watch them. Meese 01:57, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
For that matter, none of the others I could find worked; all of them returned the same "Video not found" error, only difference being in the displayed link. -Duet 02:03, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
I'm also talking about DFO wiki. Try Ghost Slash, if that doesn't work then it has something to do with your browser. Trying to find what's causing the problem. All the flash videos on DFO wiki works for me.--Hengsheng120(talkcontribs) 02:24, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
The DFO ones aren't hosted on mediafire, and those do work. Clearly the issue lies in that. -Duet 02:31, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Fyi, mediafire links aren't permanent. The 2nd part changes periodically. --κєνıи тαıĸ«) 02:36, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Ok thanx i'll upload them elsewhere--Hengsheng120(talkcontribs) 02:37, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Does it load now?--Hengsheng120(talkcontribs) 04:38, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Still getting a "Video not found" error. Why not upload them to youtube and link from there? Meese 16:26, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
It's now on a webhosting site, should be permanent. Does it work now?--Hengsheng120(talkcontribs) 07:40, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
It now works fine for me. --Aramet (Talk) 18:50, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Auto-Mill

I found an easier method where you click and hold outside your windmill range (cursor should have an "X" now), then move the cursor into the windmill range(which activates the "no target in range). Also, unlike the "press the mouse button before loading the skill", this can be done either when the skill is loading or ready to be activated. Same concept, and can be easily done. Not sure if its susceptible to lag however. -- Teoh