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From User talk:Kapra
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Time User Activity Comment
00:07, 19 February 2014 LexisMikaya (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:54, 18 February 2014 Info (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:46, 18 February 2014 Ikkisuki (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:45, 18 February 2014 LexisMikaya (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:44, 18 February 2014 Kapra (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:44, 18 February 2014 Ikkisuki (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:44, 18 February 2014 Sakura502 (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:42, 18 February 2014 Kapra (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:39, 18 February 2014 LexisMikaya (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:37, 18 February 2014 LexisMikaya (talk | contribs) Comment text edited  
23:36, 18 February 2014 Info (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:30, 18 February 2014 LexisMikaya (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:28, 18 February 2014 LexisMikaya (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:22, 18 February 2014 Ikkisuki (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:20, 18 February 2014 LexisMikaya (talk | contribs) Comment text edited (Take my not equal sign...you need it more than I do.)
23:07, 18 February 2014 Kapra (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:03, 18 February 2014 Ikkisuki (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
23:01, 18 February 2014 Ikkisuki (talk | contribs) Comment text edited (Missed one.)
22:59, 18 February 2014 Ikkisuki (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
22:55, 18 February 2014 Kapra (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
22:48, 18 February 2014 Kapra (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
22:48, 18 February 2014 LexisMikaya (talk | contribs) New reply created (Reply to Occupation)
22:44, 18 February 2014 Ikkisuki (talk | contribs) New thread created  

Please provide me with your definition of occupation.

Ikkisuki (talk)22:44, 18 February 2014

Awh, you beat me to it...though yes, Why do you consider them "jobless?"

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)22:48, 18 February 2014

I do not consider them jobless, we do not know their jobs yet. Closest of what we can describe as a job for Diva is Traveling Bard, perhaps, or Traveling Singer. We cannot associate Merlin with a job. We also cannot say what Professor J's job is, only that he is wearing what looks like a military uniform. "Druid", "Starlet", and probably "Vates" is not a job.

Kapra - (Talk)22:55, 18 February 2014
 

The definition you provided seems sufficient. "Druid" is a religion. "Starlet" is a social status. Would "Vates" be considered a job? I can kind of see how "Vates" might be a job title, like "Royal Alchemist", but the term "Vate" or "Vates" was never used that way. I don't see enough evidence to call "Vates" his job, I hope the other two would be obvious.

Kapra - (Talk)22:48, 18 February 2014
Edited by 2 users.
Last edit: 23:20, 18 February 2014

Mores is allowed to be a druid, but PJ isn't.
If "Druid" = "a priest, magician, or soothsayer in the ancient Celtic religion"[1], and Druid ≠ Occupation, then Priest + Magician ≠ Occupation.

"Starlet"? Social status? What rank is that above and below?
If "Starlet" = "a young actress with aspirations to become a star"[1], and Starlet ≠ Occupation, then Actress ≠ Occupation.

If "Vate" = "Highly Skilled Alchemist"[2], and Vate ≠ Occupation, then Alchemist ≠ Occupation.

...WHAT IS AN OCCUPATION?

  1. 1.0 1.1 Google
  2. As defined by [1]
Ikkisuki (talk)22:59, 18 February 2014
 

Wait, did you just say a "druid" is a religion? What.

Ikkisuki (talk)23:03, 18 February 2014
 
  • Mores should not be allowed to be called a Druid for his occupation, if you ask me.
  • Druid is not a priest, magician, or soothsayer. To be a druid is to be a part of that religion. You can be a priest within that religion, and being a priest would be your occupation, but not the title of your religion.
  • I could say I want to be an astronaut, that doesn't make wanting to be an astronaut my job. Perhaps student or apprentice. However, unlike the other two, we can label Starlet with a job at the moment, but "Starlet" would not be what we label a job title.
  • I am skilled cooking, that does not make me a Chef.

Edit: Yes, Druid is a religion. It is not limited to priests and healers. You may share practices with a priest like modern day church goers go to practice their Christianity, that does not mean that is their occupation.

Kapra - (Talk)23:07, 18 February 2014
  • So being a mage is an occupation but druid is not? Both terms can be interchangeable to some degree without losing meaning.
    • Stating is as a religion when Mabinogi uses in the terms as a class does not present a valid argument. Druid is used as a term for a class, or in this case, a talent. If you're associating with the religion, then you already lost the argument.
  • Starlet is fine as an occupation, which goes along the lines of being a starting/beginner actress or singer. Starlet herself could be referred to as a Soul Star instead if you really want to take a stab at Occupations.
  • Chef is not an occupation unless you make it an occupation. Chef is defined as someone skill at cooking. It's a general term. In fact, there are a lot of titles for Chefs.
レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)23:28, 18 February 2014
 
  • I never said Mage was a job, it is not.
    • A class or in Mabi's case, a Talent, is not a job. There are some exceptions, like when classes or talents are named after jobs, like knight.
  • She can be called a starlet, actress (where did it says she was an actress?), singer, or soul star. But only actress and singer would be actual jobs.
  • Exactly. Vate in Mabinogi's case it not used as an occupation's title, but as I explained in an earlier post in this thread, it could be one. But thus far, it hasn't been used as one and there is still room for the saga 2 to explain it in more detail.



To resolve the argument, these issues would need to be settled:

  • Has druid ever been used as a term of an occupation, where and how? Would using the terms Healer or Priest, or other job titles be more accurate?
  • Is Starlet the NPC is actress? It is established that she is a Singer and that can be accepted as her occupation.
  • How are the terms "Starlet" and "Soul Star" occupations, and not slang, while being more accurate than other terms like Singer.
  • Is Vate or Vates an occupation title? As previously said, this cannot be proven one way or the either yet.

In addition, to a more radical note, I would rather we keep the occupation on the Job entry of a NPC page's infobox, but only include their role in the map in map pages. NPCs that would do nothing in the map but show dialogue wouldn't have a roll, NPCs that give daily quests would give quests, NPCs that own shops would list their type of shop, etc. As specific as possible.

Kapra - (Talk)23:42, 18 February 2014
 

I don't think I'm getting to you if you are just going to spit out what you said earlier...You overshot the point about here and apparently lost sight what what I am trying to tell on how Mabinogi puts it and not what is based on. Congratulations! You literally just blew my mind, because now, it is full of fuck. I normally don't use the "big swears," but you have just earned the achievement and way to keep and open mind.

The sheer amount of stupidity of removing ambiguity and not leaving any mention is just soo....more open ended than it should be. There is no exact end every time. The wiki is a collaboration of information and ambiguity is fine since people will not list every freaking single thing. That is why ambiguity exists. I do not understand what the hell is wrong with ambiguity. I am done with this crap. You can do what ever you need to do to. I don't care. Druid's not a talent/job class? okay then, you're the boss.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)00:07, 19 February 2014
 
 

I give up. Too tired for this amount of stupidity and logical fallacies. がんばって, レキシス・ミカヤ!

Ikkisuki (talk)23:22, 18 February 2014

ರ_ರ...。 なるほど...。

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)23:30, 18 February 2014

Please excuse my very-little-knowledge-of-Japanese grammar.

Ikkisuki (talk)23:44, 18 February 2014

All you need to know is that it is along the lines of "I see..." or "Okay then..." Ahh don't worry about ;c I've hard worse in real life compared to this.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)23:45, 18 February 2014
 
 
 

Kapra, I respect you and all, but does occupation really matter?

Infodude575 (talk)23:36, 18 February 2014

I'm guess to him it does considering his recent edits are aimed towards removing all ambiguity (removing words like, but not limited to: Some, Somewhat, Most, Mostly, Almost, Kinda, Sorta, maybe, Perhaps, and so on...).

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)23:39, 18 February 2014
 

Yes, we need to be as precise as possible, nothing should be open ended. Personally, I don't think listing "occupation" on map pages matters at all, mostly just on NPC pages. I would rather only features of the NPC be included in map pages.

Kapra - (Talk)23:44, 18 February 2014
 

What's to say devcat/nexon cares about the actual meaning of 'druid'?

Kay I'm out after saying this. -flees from this thread because it feels intense-

Nise Panda (talk)23:44, 18 February 2014

[THREAD INTENSIFIES]

Ikkisuki (talk)23:46, 18 February 2014
 

Yeah I'm out of here too.

Infodude575 (talk)23:54, 18 February 2014