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User talk:Kotarou3

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Revision as of 01:48, 17 July 2010 by Powder Rune (talk | contribs) (Ego Jewel Calculator: new section)
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Patches - C4 section

Don't make C4 section. Because we don't have information about C4. And Don't write your guess. --Juff 10:53, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, i read the other day (forgot from where) that the count at the top was gonna be removed the next patch ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 10:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
It was false. Devcat doesn't notice about it. And although it is true, it doesn't matter until released. --Juff 10:58, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Okay then... ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 11:49, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Styles

Why are you changing width="?" into style="width: ?", is there a reason why the style code must be used? --ZRoc (Talk) 05:53, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

if you're up to date with HTML, you will know that those tags are deprecated and not supported in HTML 4.01/XHTML 1.0 ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 05:55, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Thank you, I didn't know it was deprecated, I will use the style format in future. I was using the width="?" simply because it was easier to type in. You realise that this wiki uses a lot of deprecated coding and that most of its editors are unaware of the difference between HTML, CSS and wiki code, let alone what is deprecated or not (obviously me included lol). They are merely players wanting to add info, rather than people up-to-date on web coding. Not only are you going to have to change a lot of existing code but your going to have "undesired" code added by those who use what they know rather than what the most recent version of coding recommends. Similarly, what works for HTML 4 doesn't necessarily work on all browsers or older versions of browsers (sadly, the newest version of browsers don't always work on older systems), so some code may get reverted because it doesn't appear to be working. Perhaps you should set up a guide on your user page as to what HTML coding should be used, which browsers (and what versions) it works on and an explanation as to why this should be done. Then again, maybe not, cause you may need to set-up another wiki just for that guide and most users probably won't bother to read it XD --ZRoc (Talk) 06:26, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
By the way, if you don't want to use deprecated code then why are you using short-hand color codes such as background-color: #aaa; instead of background-color: #aaaaaa;. The short hand isn't supposed to be supported in future. --ZRoc (Talk) 06:40, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
I dont think so. The CSS specs doesnt say anything about it being deprecated.
Also, use
This
instead of
This
and This instead of This (View the source, they look identical from outside) ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 07:02, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm, I can't find anything about the colors, yet I was sure I read it somewhere. Oh well, ignore what I said about the color short-hand T.T. Huh? Cellpadding, cellspacing and border aren't deprecated (at least not according to the W3C website) but I'll use your coding as it does the same thing. Is there no way to put the padding only in the tables top row of code instead of repeating it for each row? This is gonna take some getting used too and remembering to use it. I didn't create the upgrade tables or the text's font colors, I simply copied the code from existing ones (but did change the column headings to what I now find is the wrong code lol). Again, I'll still use your code for future tables but leave changing existing table to you =3 --ZRoc (Talk) 08:27, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Ill change the ones i can be bothered to =3 ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 08:28, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Good idea XD. You didn't answer the question >:P Is there no way to put the padding only in the tables top row of code instead of repeating it for each row? --ZRoc (Talk) 08:43, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
Normally for that i would use the <style> tag, but mediawiki doesnt allow that ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 22:55, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Future Content

Please stop adding content that isn't implemented on the NA server to pages or categories without indicating that it isn't implemented. Talk to Angevon (admin) for confirmation. If you need to create a page about an unimplemented item then add Template:FutureContent at the top of the page and add the page to Category:Future Items or one of its sub-categories, not to the actual item's category. For unimplemented content such as skills, add it to Category:Upcoming Content. If you want to add info about some future content to an implemented item's page then put it in comment tags and remove the tags when it's implemented (see the Snowball page). If it's to be added to a table list page then put it in a Future Content section, with Template:FutureContent added immediately under the section heading (see Cylinders List). When people look for info on the wiki and find upcoming content or future items listed as if they were implemented, it confuses the hell out of them which isn't exactly helpful XD. --ZRoc (Talk) 20:11, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I do add the template, but maybe i forgot to add one somewhere. You tell me ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 20:12, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
You added unimplemented info to the Snowball page and unimplemented info to the Hunting Quests page (about Nekojima). --ZRoc (Talk) 20:22, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Opps, i forgot then. Did you change it for me or do i need to change it ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 20:23, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I've changed both pages XD --ZRoc (Talk) 20:25, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
You forgot to change the merchant license page, im doing that ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 20:27, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
That's a hell of a lot of things that can be done on an event map, it must have lasted more than a couple of weeks in Japan. And I didn't even know about the merchant license lol. --ZRoc (Talk) 20:30, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Contact

Oops sorry, it looked like you created it after you created the page. --ZRoc (Talk) 20:18, 6 May 2010 (UTC)


Very Nice

Haha I like what you did there, thats very creative ;) could I use that in my profile? (of course changed to me :P)--Marthian 02:39, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Whats very creative? ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 08:29, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
The Character Template. It doesn't matter I guess :|, I found another template--Marthian 16:52, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Re: Weather

None of those areas are implemented. The wiki specifically does not support the use of glitches or hacks. Try to create a page about how to use a glitch or hack (or the result of such) and you will get the attention of the admins. The wiki only supplies info that has been officially implemented on the NA server, not stuff that's in the game software and can be glitched into. Also, such areas may never be implemented on the NA server or its content may be changed before it's implemented. In many cases you can't "glitch" into an unimplemented area without using some form of hack which is info that's not to be placed on the wiki (they don't even allow images that show hacks in use, unless there is a very special reason to do so). An example is Nekojima, which apparently can be "glitched" into, but it may never be implemented on the NA server as Nexon NA has suggested they will make a localised version. This means names, locations, rewards, drops, etc., may be changed to something Nexon NA sees more relevant to US players.

Supplying info about those areas without indicating they aren't implemented is inaccurate and potentially confusing. Pretty is nice but accurate is a lot more important. Actually, I don't see them as any less or more pretty, it's a sentence not a picture XD. The not implemented notifications at tops of pages aren't "pretty" either but are necessary. Non-implemented info added to part of a page either shouldn't be added, should be placed in comment tags until it's implemented or should use something to indicate that specific info isn't implemented. If there are pages that don't do this then they need to be altered. Non-implemented info from other servers (or held in the game's software) can change before Nexon NA implements it so that information is not reliable. --ZRoc (Talk) 13:03, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Btw be careful about "glitching" into those unimplemented areas. At present, apparently, if a GM finds you in such an area they only warn you that you shouldn't be there, however, Nexon may have a method to record who enters such an area. If Nexon decides hacking is involved or that players are abusing a glitch and wants to make a point then watch out for the mass ban-hammer, just like they did for the misuse of the residential area gold glitch. I'm not saying they will but just keep that in mind. --ZRoc (Talk) 20:57, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Cell-padding

This HTML table property is not deprecated and allows you to set cell padding from the top line of a table's code rather than having to place them on each cell in the first row. Also, border and cell-spacing are not deprecated. I will be using the HTML border, cell-spacing and cell-padding properties in future and will not be using the CSS properties, as most tables use them anyway. For the deprecated properties I will follow your advice and use the CSS properties. You can follow my edits around the wiki to change non-deprecated code but I think it's a waste of time. Also, should I need to re-edit a table for any reason I will change the CSS properties for border, cell-padding and cell-spacing back using the HTML properties (by just copy/pasting the code from an existing table) as it's easier for me to use. On the other hand, should I need to re-edit a table that uses deprecated HTML code then I will follow your example and replace it with the CSS style properties. --ZRoc (Talk) 06:37, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Putting the spacing and border properties inside a style property will make it easier to read. You can put padding outside of it if you want, but try to keep the spacing and border properties inside ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 06:44, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm, OK I'll consider the border and spacing but existing tables I'll leave as they are, you can change them if you want (I will still change deprecated code as that has a reason to be changed). Also, the same applies with using the wiki code for bold (i.e., '''bold''') as compared to the CSS style property. The wiki code is not deprecated, is far easier to use and is no different than using the wiki code's pipe character (which is used to construct tables on this wiki instead of HTML table tags). --ZRoc (Talk) 06:52, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Elephant Chiefs

Well if you go to the Cor area around the Savannah (I don't remember the specific name!) you'd probably spot Young Elephant and Elephant. But if you've gone around enough in the Savannah (which not a lot of people do), you might spot an unusually larger elephant, known as Elephant Chief. I think there's only one at a time, and supposedly it's the leader of the "tribe"..? :D But yeah, once you kill one, a new Elephant Chief is crowned.. and, that's kinda neat. Kinda. -- sushi . ♫ 23:28, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Monster Template

The blue color does not match the rest of the wiki, it's not a similar style and I've been encouraged by an admin to keep the styles consistent. the {{{format}}} change is because the other code is massively slowing down/hurting the computer power of the wiki servers. Both issues have been explained in Q&A, though it requires some hunting.

Speaking of which can I get your opinion on the monster templates we'll be switching to soon? Since you seem to have a different opinion on the monster tables than anyone else I've talked to so far.

The only thing that's non-negotiable is probably the colors, and I'm willing to bend on the other things if you give me a good reason. It may be helpful to read Q/A to see the discussions that've already occurred over this template, or you can just bring up your concerns and I can link you to the appropriate discussion. o.o -- ladywinter ~{talk | contribs}~ 15:39, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

oh um, and can you hold off on making changes to the monster template unless it's at midnight, perferably on a workday? It's apparently been crashing the wiki. ^^;; -- ladywinter ~{talk | contribs}~ 17:59, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Thats usually what ive been doing o.o (Im aussie you know... and so is ZRoc) ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 06:20, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Re: Monster Templates

See Q112 - Monster Data Templates. The new server may be quicker but doubling the massive number of updates required for each use of the monster table style template throughout the wiki (every time that template is edited and saved) is never a good idea. Also, it's not a good idea to use a particular style template on a data templates page, the data templates are meant to hold data to be used by various style templates, not one. Using the monster table style template only shows the data as used by that template and does not help for viewing the data as used by other style templates.

Another problem is that to view the parameter names and associated values you need to always go into edit mode for the data template, if the monster table is used to display the data. Using the monster table also hides the values of the "Page" parameter (and any other parameter whose value is not displayed in the monster table) again requiring a user to waste time and go into edit mode to view the actual values of such hidden parameters. If you want to display the monster table then you can use noinclude tags under the data and call the the monster table style template using that data template as you would on a main namespace page. However, you then can't use preview to see changes to any edits to the data in the displayed monster table (you need to save the data template) but the raw data will show the changes in preview. Using the noinclude tags to display a monster table can slow down loading the actual data template page, which is noticeable when the wiki is running slow (this still happens with the new server). The warning given at the top of many monster data template pages uses noinclude tags but it's code is so small that it makes no noticeable difference to loading a data template page (I tried data template pages with and without it when the wiki was going slow). If you feel it's really necessary to add the noinclude tags to display the monster table, then you can add it to each monster data template if you wish (I won't be wasting my time adding it though). --ZRoc (Talk) 16:55, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Woops, ladywinter gave you an answer too XD --ZRoc (Talk) 16:56, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Monster Style Template

You might want to put your comment on ladywinter's talk page regarding the table's color, she is unlikely to see it on mine and she is the one creating the new monster table. --ZRoc (Talk) 17:35, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Magic fusion skills

No, you didn't. They don't exist as skills. Absolutely, categorically not. Either you're lying, or you coincidentally discovered another skill. No skill data exists for these, no training, no EXP, no ranks. Even if you DID experience that and it was relevant, it doesn't belong on the wiki. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IHarryl (talkcontribs) . Please always sign your comments with the Signature.png button or by typing ~~~~!

Well I did, or was it just me editing skillinfo.xml to show all the hidden skills? ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 22:08, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Re: IE and the "inherit" value

Thank you, although I'm not sure what the "inherit" value does, I have seen it mentioned and that it wasn't supposed to work on IE.

Your mesage also reminded me about the following. When you create a table and want to use a particular color for the text/data entered in a cell, instead of using:

| style="color: #0000ff;" | Text/Data

I would suggest

| <span style="color: #0000ff;">Text/Data</span>

The reason is that for the current versions of Firefox and Opera, where any table has a border greater than 1px, then using the code style="color: #0000ff;" produces an inner colored border inside the cell, as well as the text/data having that specific color. This doesn't happen in the current versions of IE, Safari or Chrome. Using the code <span style="color: #0000ff;">Text/Data</span> will only give the text/data that color in all five browsers. If you have Firefox or Opera, then look at the bottom of Example 4 in my user page's Sandbox section. The 2nd and 3rd tables show the colored inner cell borders for the 3rd and 4th row in each table. If that effect is desired then there is no problem but we don't really use it in any tables. --ZRoc (Talk) 10:24, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Interesting... Have you tried it with tables without inset borders? Since we dont actually use those borders on the wiki ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 10:27, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
You are correct that inset borders aren't used but this doesn't mean that they won't be in future. Rather than having to change the code in future it may be better to use the span tags now. Note that, all present browsers will still display deprecated code and will probably do so for quite a while for commercial reasons. So changing deprecated code is only future proofing the wiki and is not really fixing any immediate problems. Although not as important as replacing deprecated code, however, using the span tags seems a better choice for future proofing the wiki. --ZRoc (Talk) 08:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Let me test a bit though.
Test with border-spacing
Test with solid border
Test with inset border
Test with outset border
Nop, can't recreate the problem ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 09:27, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

monster template

~thumbs up~ I have no idea how you got the font to work without making all the borders disappear, but excellent! I'll implement it tonight sometime late.

I know html but not css and meh, I'll pick up css maaaaybe if I find I need to use it again. Most of the stuff that I do for wiki is data entry rather than formatting, and most of the formatting I do is rearranging words to make more sense or to be more concise. =) -- ladywinter ~{talk | contribs}~ 13:30, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

...icons? ::deeply confused:: -- ladywinter ~{talk | contribs}~ 05:23, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
meh, looks fine without them XD -- ladywinter ~{talk | contribs}~ 06:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
lol kk have at! XD -- ladywinter ~{talk | contribs}~ 06:28, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Good to know you're taking over. I know nothing about css. --- Angevon (Talk) 16:58, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Nah, iconless. The upshot of several convo's I'd had. I'd rather clarity here, plus, it makes it easier in the future for ppl to edit the data. -- ladywinter ~{talk | contribs}~ 05:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

No, without icons its harder to read. ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 05:09, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
harder to read, because it's hard to read alot of text, true, but more CLEAR. Also with the capabilities of adding in skill ranks. -- ladywinter ~{talk | contribs}~ 05:30, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
Okay, lets let Angevon decide. Ill leave a message ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 05:42, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
=\ I'm fairly sure I know her answer as my responses to you are paraphrases of a discussion that already took place. Her response in particular is near the bottom of the section I'd linked to. To be honest, I'd originally fell on the side of icons, but have since been persuaded otherwise, by aLOT of people. -- ladywinter ~{talk | contribs}~ 07:51, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
Could you two try to keep these discussions on either the template's talk page or the Q&A page? This concerns pretty much the entire wiki community, not just the people doing most of the editing.--Sozen Cratos Focker 08:00, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Re: Combined Food Template

I would suggest you ask on the Q&A page if others want the changes. As easily as you have created the changes then others will alter them or change them back. It would be better to get some form of agreement but the choice is yours. Also creating massive templates shows you know what your doing but it makes it really hard for those who know little about wiki coding, let alone template coding. Templates are useful but please try to keep things simple. I know we have things like the monster table but I'm not really happy about it either and would really prefer not to see something like it used often. I think we need as many people to be able to contribute as possible (including in maintaining the wiki's style, as well as adding info) and not just those with a brilliant flair for coding.

Also, when editing templates take note that your edit to the monster table template caused the wiki to be inaccessible for a long time. Please try to edit existing templates, that are used a lot on the wiki, as little as possible and preferably when the wiki has few or no users (early morning PST).

My suggestions:

  1. For the image use {{{Image|{{{Name|none}}}.jpg}}}. You can add whatever default extension you want, I'm just using ".jpg" as its used in other templates. This allows any name and extension to be used but if none is given then the actual item's name and the default extension is used. This means no new parameter need be added to existing templates but where an image does not use the actual item name or default extension then the image parameter can be added as required. Item image names should use the actual item name and correct extension but this is not always possible and is not required by the wiki policy. To make it part of the wiki policy would mean we would get far fewer image uploads and Nexon NA changes item names before, and even after, implementing an item on the server. Using redirect file pages is not a good solution.
  2. Remove the Method cells (title and value cells). Many food items have multiple methods to obtain them, including long lists of monster drops and an increasing number of NPCs that will sell them. The Method cells repeat what is already on a page and either tells nothing (has something short like Purchase) or ends up making the one cell huge and distorting the template (tries to list all the NPCs that sell it, monsters that drop it and other methods). Other methods of obtaining a food item may need a more detailed explanation than can be given in a short sentence. As with other items there should be separate "Methods to Obtain" and "Used In" sections on the page itself and not in a single table, so that the info can be added in separate sub-sections as required.
  3. Remove the Recipe cells (title and value cells). Many foods don't have a recipe to make them via cooking and even if they do then they should be listed in the separate "Methods to Obtain" section (under a "Cooking" sub-section) and not repeated in the template's table.
  4. Most item inventory images on item pages use a black rather than grey background, I don't know when the food item table's template got changed to grey (or even if the template was designed that way initially) but it would be better to keep the backgrounds consistent with other item pages (no-one has agreed to change the background color). Note that, the item list table pages are being changed to a light blue background but that's already been agreed to, talk to Angevon (admin) or Chrissyofhailfire (implementing changes to item list tables).

Otherwise, the food item table looks fine XD --ZRoc (Talk) 09:42, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

1. Uhh, currently all the foods have a variable called "Icon" which contains where the icon is (including the file extension. The template first tests for a picture named the item's name and using the default file extension "png" (You can specify using the "Ext" variable). If it exists, it shows that. If it does not exsist, it then tests for a picture named from the variable "Icon". If it exists, it shows that and if it does not exists, it shows a generic "No Image" picture and links to the upload page. The code for all that is:
[[Image:{{#ifexist: Media:{{{Icon}}}
|
    {{{Icon}}}{{!}}Inventory icon of {{{Name}}}
|
    {{#ifexist: Media:{{{Name}}}.{{{Ext|png}}}
    |
        {{{Name}}}.{{{Ext|png}}}{{!}}Inventory icon of {{{Name}}}
    |
        StyleFoodNone.png{{!}}link=http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Special:Upload&wpDestFile={{urlencode:{{{Name}}}}}.{{{Ext|png}}}{{!}}Upload a inventory icon for {{{Name}}}
    }}
}}]]
It's shortened to one line in the template. A tad complicated eh? >.>
2&3. Okay, removed
4. Ladywinter changed that. Go complain to her xD. But tell me what colour you would prefer, and I'll change it to that colour (You can too, if you can work out where it is Xp) ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 09:59, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Re:You deleted File:StyleMonsterNone.png

Ah, apologies for that. I was cleaning up and it wasn't linked to anything on the wiki at all, meaning it appeared under unused files. Sorry for the inconvenience. - Powder Rune 16:28, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

thanks for the addige of advice...

thanks for the advice... but i'm not entirely sure if its helped or not... i've seen however that it is possible. which is more than what i was hoping for before. now i just need to understand what exactly the code does and see if i can apply it to my project. if you could explain to me how the code for the star foods data is hidden and used... that would be great as thats close to what i want.--chrissy of hailfire 12:20, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Uhh, it's kinda hard to explain. I'll do the best I can but you gotta tell me what template are you gonna change? ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 11:05, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Viewing DLLs

(http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Talk:Defense) What program did you use to view the DLL files, where you say you found that defense formula at? I'd like to look at it. Either way, I ran some numbers, and then tried balancing the formulas, and it turns out, they produce exactly the same results. --Sephy 09:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

IDA Pro Advanced but IDA Free is fine. It's in Standard.dll. If you alt+t and search for defence, you might find it somewhere. (I think it was CalculateDamageFromDefence though) ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 22:55, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Regarding your unknown Icons

The first two that look like spears happen to be part of the brionac system added in G11. One of them is Auto-Train and the other is Repair Brionac. I can't remember which is which cuz they look so similar but I can go on KR test some time and firue it out if you like. I'm not sure on the others but I think the black feather is Nuadha'a or Morrighan's skill from g12 final. Tellos 06:44, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

RE: Stylesheets access?

As far as I know, only admins can edit it. They are beyond my realm of knowledge, honestly. --- Angevon (Talk) 23:05, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Re: Signature

The signature is just a template, so in "my preferences" I have {{SUBST:Template:User:Cosmic/Signature}} in the signature box and the "Treat signature as wikitext" box checked. So it's still just ~~~~ that I use. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄ƷCosmicƸ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ a L k 02:03, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Ohhh, I see :) ~kotarou3 TALKCONTRIBS 02:21, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Ego Jewel Calculator

I'm guessing that this is your work, correct me if I'm wrong. I was going over the Jewel page with a friend and we realized that it wasn't functioning. Just letting you know. --Powder Rune 08:48, 17 July 2010 (UTC)