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Use Party Healing on 3 or more people in Critical condition.

Fragment of a discussion from Talk:Party Healing

Critical condition/in distress has always been healing someone whose HP is lower than 20%. It's a widely known thing; even the regular Healing page mentions it.

Infodude575 (talk)21:39, 27 October 2015
Edited by another user.
Last edit: 19:25, 2 November 2015

That is false.

Under 20% yes, but not JUST under 20%. I widely know this because I spent 5 hours today testing it. Thank you though for your input.

Also, "in distress" is not the same requirement, so it may only require 20% for that line.

I now have video evidence that the requirement is not only 20% of hp, but also a net % hp loss between heals.
I have confirmed that the 20% does not apply to wounded hp.
I have confirmed that the 'healing counter' keeps track of net hp loss rather than total hp loss.
I am willing to post images/video proof of this if someone tells me how.

Vlykarye (talk)21:42, 27 October 2015

I'm actually a bit confused on your wording here. I mostly don't know what you mean by net hp loss as opposed to total hp loss. Can you give examples of what would count for fulfilling "in distress" but not for "critical condition?"

Blargel (talk)17:33, 30 October 2015
Edited by 2 users.
Last edit: 19:26, 2 November 2015

Oh right, let me clear up the concept with an example:
Player has 100 hp (100 starting hp).
Player loses 50 hp from attack 1 (50 remaining hp).
Player drinks 30hp pot (80 remaining hp).
Player loses 50 hp from attack 2 (30 remaining hp).

Total hp loss = 50 hp loss from attack 1 + 50 hp loss from attack 2 = 100 total hp loss.
Net hp loss = 100 starting hp - 30 remaining hp = 70 net hp loss.

I am following standard definitions of mathematical (and I suppose accounting) terminology that can be found here:
Total vs Net

As for the difference between "in distress" and "critical condition," I cannot say, as I have not actually tested the "in distress" requirement myself. I have only rigorously tested the "critical condition" requirements, and from what I've read on the wiki, I can say that the in-game requirements for "critical condition" is different than what the wiki states as the requirements for "in distress."

Hmm, there isn't a good wiki page for the definition of "net," so I can see where it could be confusing. I was unable to find a website that defines "net value," so I'll simply have to explain it better myself. Following this link, Displacement, will take you to a page showing the difference between "distance" and "displacement." These words are great for describing motion, but we need words to describe a similar concept between the loss and gain of other values. In this context, pretend "total" means "distance" and "net" means "displacement." That is the best explanation between total value and net value.

Vlykarye (talk)18:22, 30 October 2015

I see what you mean now. I would find it very strange that the game would keep track of total hp loss so there's really nothing surprising about that particular finding. I now have a few more questions to clarify what you mean.

 
 
I have confirmed that the 20% does not apply to wounded hp.
 

 

This statement is a bit ambiguous. If for example a player has 20% wounds, making his effective hp 80% of his max, would he need to be at 20% of his effective hp (16% of max) or would 20% of max hp still give training? I think I remember when training that it would be the latter, but I can't quite trust my memory since I trained healing so long ago.

 
 
I now have video evidence that the requirement is not only 20% of hp, but also a net % hp loss between heals.
 

 

If you are unable to upload the video to YouTube, at least describe what happened that made you think this. At the moment, I find this hard to believe from my own experiences.

Blargel (talk)02:06, 1 November 2015

I believe the 20% applies to total hp because each party member was at 25% or less effective hp during skill training.

Here are some screenshots side by side of before and after party heal.
The first heal, we were all very deadly, so the requirements were fulfilled, and I received full EXP.
Heal #1

The second heal, our effective hp was nearly 100%, so only exp for using party heal was gained.
Heal #2

The third heal was nearly identical to the second, to show that it was not random.
Heal #3

The fourth heal, I waited for everyone to enter deadly again, and I received full EXP for the heal.
Heal #4
Note: Simply "being deadly" is not a requirement. The hp loss counter does not stop at deadly, it continues to count (we just can't see the 'current hp' without mods).

This alone is proof that there is some kind of hp loss counter in-game.

Vlykarye (talk)03:40, 1 November 2015

I think the problem is that you need people that have hp to even heal. If you're wounded so that your maximum effective hp is 5, you must have less than 5 hp so that some bit of healing is registered for the training. Otherwise the game probably thinks that since you healed 0 hp for that person, there's no reason to give you training.

Blargel (talk)19:14, 1 November 2015
Edited by another user.
Last edit: 19:27, 2 November 2015

Incorrect. I tested this vigorously. Wound doesn't matter. If you have ever used mods, you would know that effective HP does not stop at 0. Neither does total wound. It continues below 0, and with 100% wound or MORE, you can steal get exp from party healing.

The wound rate was there so that effective HP would ALWAYS be under 20%. I kept it about 0% so I could show how the requirements work in screenshots.

Vlykarye (talk)19:27, 1 November 2015

That's not what I was saying. I was saying that if you try to heal someone who cannot be healed any further due to wounds, you will not receive training, even if they are under 20%. The fact that wounds and hp can go below 0 is a well-known fact but irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.

EDIT: After rereading a bit of this, I realized that we may be arguing over completely different points. The point I'm arguing against right now is "the requirement is not only 20% of hp, but also a net % hp loss between heals". I agree that wounding does not affect what counts as 20%.

Blargel (talk)17:40, 2 November 2015

Ah ok. I see. Well. I have proven for myself that my statements hold true, so if anyone would like to disprove me, I ask for video or pictures showing that I am incorrect. This, of course, is impossible. So, I would like to go ahead and add my tip to the wiki. However, I feel if I do so, someone will simply delete my addition because they "think" I'm incorrect without proof to back their statement up. So, if anyone else would like to test these theories, I would appreciate the support.

Vlykarye (talk)18:22, 2 November 2015

I feel like your theory is too complicated, but if you have a simple easy-to-understand way to word what you want to say on the main page, you may as well add it. If someone removes it without explanation, you can always ask them for counter-evidence on their user talk page.

Blargel (talk)19:23, 2 November 2015

I'll try to find easier to understand wording.

Vlykarye (talk)19:28, 2 November 2015

I finally realized I did not read the first post carefully enough. I now fully understand the test you were conducting and the kind of extra information you are trying to add. I'm still not sure how to word it in a way that is easily understood for the general wiki reader though. I will think about it as well.

Blargel (talk)19:46, 2 November 2015

I think it will be good enough to mention in the Training section a line from Healing.
"The skill must recover HP to receive skill training (full HP as well as wounding does not count)."
The requirement is almost the same, so I shall reword it a bit. This should be enough for any confused players who might be trying to train party heal.

Vlykarye (talk)19:49, 2 November 2015