Removal of Weapon Grades

Why is this happening? :| It makes me very unhappy.

I would like to know the answer to that question as well. I will note that from what I've seen its been done by one user, and I haven't seen a reason given for it on any of the pages I've checked. I cant find a reason for it given anywhere on the wiki. weapon grade information is very relevant to have on each weapons given page because it helps users who are looking for performance over fashion find the weapon grade that's right for them, for example Fluted Short Sword dropped by Lycanthrope could have the highest min/max damage and durability for fluted short swords, wheres the ones made through black-smithing only have higher critical by 2 points and lower attack by 1 and 1 respectively. the thing that bothers me the most about it is how no reason was given by the user who removed all the information. it bothers me because from poking around I've seen that the user has actually provided a good amount of relevant information around on the wiki. could someone please elaborate why the weapon grade information has been removed with no explanation?

the lack of explanation makes it feel like its some sort of elitist plot to remove the evidence of weapons that perform much better then their NPC/gotcha/fashion-grade counter parts <.<;

..ok i joke with that plot idea, but seriously the weapon grade information should be posted back on the pages because its much more relevant then the new "available enchant types" bar that's recently been added to weapon pages.

Weapon Grades

If you can't find something try searching for it.

It was removed from the pages because weapon grade is either "Stock" "Monster-Type" "Synthesized" or "Crafted". With regards to the monster drops, the boosts are entirely independent of the monster that dropped them. Having the table on every page is useless clutter, so it was moved to the category page and can still be found by searching for it.

I was the one who removed it after requesting permission to do so.

i hope this reply wont be discarded as a "tl;dr" post...

Id like to start by noting that until a discussion i had with a friend later the day that you posted your above reply Tellos, I wasn't actually aware that the 1-4 grading was random on the monster drops =o

the reason for this is that by coincidence when i got monster-dropped weapons they just happened to have matched up with all the cluttered grade graph. lucky i guess, and a bit strange.

that being said however, i still disagree with complete removal of the Grade section on weapons. i agree that it was indeed looking cluttered. all gear on the wiki contains a "grade" section. shields, clothing, armors etc. and i think weapons are the items that are most deserving of a grade section on their respective page since all the other types of gears mentioned rarely come in grade variants (to my knowledge none do aside from crafted armors, but don't quote me on this because i haven't investigated into it much) but weapons do and I'm not entirely focusing on just the average monster-grade variants.

plus, for the more simple folk out there its nice to not have to do the math (tho its not like X+4 is difficult, I'm only adding this comment because a few people i talked to mentioned that they feel the graph was convenient since this is a encyclopedia and its convenient to just see the information on the page of the item your looking up).

there was still some noteworthy information tacked on to the grade sections that the weapons list page you linked too both explains as relevant and lacks the detailing of on its own page (btw i did search and come across that page, tho i did neglect to check the discussion to see that you had the go-ahead on it, sorry if my first post made it sound like i was making an accusation of any sort, i was lightheartedly joking with the comment so if it rubbed you the wrong way im really sorry).

the relevant information i speak of is explained by the Note thats in bold on the weapons list. weapons that are dropped with a fixed durability increase. not all the fixed durability weapons are of a simple +4. usually they are +5. check the history on some of the weapon pages and you can see this, i suggest Bastard Sword and Hooked Cutlass.

the Bastard Sword page listed a variant with 19 durability dropped by Giant Lion, 17 durability dropped by Giant Sand Worm, 16 durability by Red Dragon. the Base durability for Bastard sword is 10, so each of those weapons are unique to their source, if the information that was in the list is indeed correct that is. i cant confirm their validity because i dont fight these bosses or know anyone who has received one of those noted items.

Hooked Cutlass is an example of a weapon that has no monster-grade version as neither of the 2 versions of it that were listed came from monster sources. both had the same stats except that they differed in durability. the "base" version listed was 10 durability, the second version came from Gachapons and has 15 durability, a bonus of 5 not 4.

i hope that's sufficient information to make my point that not all weapons are a simple +4, at least in regards to weapon durability. the single most convenient thing that listing grade could provide is informing players the source of those weapons which have the preset durability bonus dropped by the raid bosses(even if their additional bonus' are still random), and so that in cases such as the Hooked Cutlass for example, they would know the item they just got from a Gachapon is different then the collection book version and thus might fetch a higher price when sold in a player shop or traded to another individual.

it would be handy to still retain a grade section in my opinion. it could list Base, a simplified monster grade entry that only listes the +4 max bonus, an entry for crafted versions (smithing/synthing or carpentry for bow items, but avoiding multiple entry's of this type if the weapon is creatable by more then one method but end result is the same) and finally retaining unique grades that with a specific source such as those found in gachapons or dropped from raid bosses such as Dragons or found in connus treasure chests. to top it off, any grade section for any gear should really have the show/hide tab, i think its handy because it really reduces the the initial look of clutter for many entry's that can sometimes get cluttered looking.

the draw back to that idea is that now the grades would have to be reinstated and then edited, more work then i think i would be qualified to do since I've only ever done minor edits such as a misspelling here or there and a botched description that was on the Scrupulous enchant about a year ago.

Its really not my intention to make an argument of this, i just wanted to share the view Ive come too about this after the discussion i had with my friend.

i would like to thank you Tellos for sparking a discussion that helped me realize that the majority of monster-dropped weapon grades are random. thanks. and i realize i probably babbled a bit along they way, that's why i try to avoid commenting on wiki's. so sorry if the post was a bit more to chew on then wanted.

While I understand what you're saying, the giant field bosses also follow this trend. Giant field boss weapons always have a fixed amount added onto their base, then the grade applied to it. For example, the Bastard Sword you're talking about is clearly a +5 variant (10+5+Grade bonus). The problem with listing the grades is that stats are always randomized with the field boss or external source exception (solea chest weapons with 25 dura for example).

This is where the problem comes in. Remove the grade info from the item grades list (since it is truly random within the set range with no weight at all) and you've just got the drop list. If a certain source has more dura than normal, then you should specify it on the drop list. For example, you could put Desert Dragon (15~19 dur) or something of that nature.

This, however, does not acccount for all fishing or really other common means to get these items. For example, fished a Machete this afternoon with much lower stats than what was given on wiki, yet one of the locations includes the area as a source. What is done in this situation?

The base values listed on the page were incorrect and have been corrected. Fished items are always of base type but with 0/x durability with the exception of irrepairable items which have full dura. I believe this is listed on the fishing page. So nothing needs to be done in this situation.

Then should there be a message that explains that the weapon listed is the best of its variation?--GravityKirby 01:15, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

The weapon listed is the stock version with no boosts or penalties.

Okay, thanks for the clear up.