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Fire-Ice-Counter
This has been bugging me for a while now but recent activities have caused me to bring it up. How many people have actually tried using this on a monster with MR (regardless of the fact that ice or lightning on a monster with MR is not recommended)? Ice-counter (or lightning counter) is used due to the fact that icing a monster forces it to normal attack you unless you critical hit it (which seems to reset it's AI). However, having tried this on a variety of notable monsters with MR2 I've found that icebolt will not force it to normal attack you (it appears that any normal attacks resulting from icing comes from the monster itself simply choosing to normal attack you) rendering any ice baiting based strategies dangerous and/or useless. I can't personally comment on monsters with MR1 (or MR3 but really now) but at the very least, it seems some ammendment is in order.--Mystickskye 05:34, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
- nothing will "force" the monster to normal attack, most monsters just usually chose to do so after being hit with icebolt, especially monsters with mana refra.
- i always use fire-ice-counter on black succubus and red succubus and it works perfectly. i have also tried this on the skel rags(miniboss of rabie adv) and i got pwned, but i lasted longer than i did with regular fire counter, and did more damage to it.
- but it might just be working better for me than for other ppl cause i have Nalge off and rank1 icebolt.--Sozen Cratos Focker 14:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, icebolt forcing a monster (without MR) to normal attack is attested to by several players across the servers and I've yet to see an exception to this apart from the Critical Hit case as mentioned above. Again, it's the reason why it's used as opposed to other specific strategies. If anything, I almost never have success on it against monsters with certain levels of MR, especially monsters like the Succubus (it'd be great to note that nagle on/off as well as rank seems irrelevant). A really good example which shows that it's not isolated to me is the Yellow Succubus of Rabbie Advance. You can Icebolt it as much as you want and chances are it'll take the hit and keep playing on it's lute. If it were just me who had this "problem" I wouldn't speak up about it but from what I've heard and observed, the way ice-bolt interacts with various monsters seems to show that it's an ineffective tactic against monsters with certain PDs. For me to accept it as an effective tactic I'd expect to see a consistent occurrence rate of monsters normal attacking after a normal ice hit regardless of PD level.--Mystickskye 05:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
- once again, nothing will "force" any monster to do anything, most AIs simply respond to being hit with icebolt by charging at the player. in my experience(and i have had quite a bit of it,I perfect trained rank 1 icebolt twice.), monsters with mana refractor are even more likely to charge at the player than monsters without it. the yellow succubus does not charge at you after being hit with icebolt simply because she is programed to do something else. havening nalge on/off and icebolt rank affect the tactic because of loading speed.--Sozen Cratos Focker 22:28, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
- "most AIs simply respond to being hit with icebolt by charging at the player" which just so happens to be exactly what I'm saying, fancy that. Also note that I can quote plenty of people with Rank 1 icebolt who will attest differently to you. The load speed is irrelevant (short of having really bad lag) as ice-counter tactics work at Rank F (especially so in this case where you've just knocked the opponent down). Yellow Succubus isn't the only monster who behaves like this either. To contest your experience I've witnessed several monsters (all of them with MR2 or higher) who quite frequently choose to do something else after being iced, quite a lot of them having "Fire-ice-counter works" or something similar in their wiki entries. This includes but isn't limited to various Succubi, the Kitty Knights and the Mirror Witch. Generally the fatal conclusion is that the enemy uses a spell on the hapless target stuck in counter. This discussion is getting nowhere though so for now I'll cede to leave it be.--Mystickskye 01:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
- casting speed doesnt matter on succubus cause it's human speed, but for other monsters it probably matters. i doubt it would work on a skeleton raghodessa with Nalge on and both ice and fire below rank a. i never said yellow succubus is the only monster that doesn't charge after being hit with ice. --Sozen Cratos Focker 01:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
- "most AIs simply respond to being hit with icebolt by charging at the player" which just so happens to be exactly what I'm saying, fancy that. Also note that I can quote plenty of people with Rank 1 icebolt who will attest differently to you. The load speed is irrelevant (short of having really bad lag) as ice-counter tactics work at Rank F (especially so in this case where you've just knocked the opponent down). Yellow Succubus isn't the only monster who behaves like this either. To contest your experience I've witnessed several monsters (all of them with MR2 or higher) who quite frequently choose to do something else after being iced, quite a lot of them having "Fire-ice-counter works" or something similar in their wiki entries. This includes but isn't limited to various Succubi, the Kitty Knights and the Mirror Witch. Generally the fatal conclusion is that the enemy uses a spell on the hapless target stuck in counter. This discussion is getting nowhere though so for now I'll cede to leave it be.--Mystickskye 01:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
- once again, nothing will "force" any monster to do anything, most AIs simply respond to being hit with icebolt by charging at the player. in my experience(and i have had quite a bit of it,I perfect trained rank 1 icebolt twice.), monsters with mana refractor are even more likely to charge at the player than monsters without it. the yellow succubus does not charge at you after being hit with icebolt simply because she is programed to do something else. havening nalge on/off and icebolt rank affect the tactic because of loading speed.--Sozen Cratos Focker 22:28, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, icebolt forcing a monster (without MR) to normal attack is attested to by several players across the servers and I've yet to see an exception to this apart from the Critical Hit case as mentioned above. Again, it's the reason why it's used as opposed to other specific strategies. If anything, I almost never have success on it against monsters with certain levels of MR, especially monsters like the Succubus (it'd be great to note that nagle on/off as well as rank seems irrelevant). A really good example which shows that it's not isolated to me is the Yellow Succubus of Rabbie Advance. You can Icebolt it as much as you want and chances are it'll take the hit and keep playing on it's lute. If it were just me who had this "problem" I wouldn't speak up about it but from what I've heard and observed, the way ice-bolt interacts with various monsters seems to show that it's an ineffective tactic against monsters with certain PDs. For me to accept it as an effective tactic I'd expect to see a consistent occurrence rate of monsters normal attacking after a normal ice hit regardless of PD level.--Mystickskye 05:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)