Talk:Celestial Spike

i accidentally messed it up, im sorry. i tried to change all the 0s to - in the stat giving part

Okay, why the random change? None of the skill pages say "0" when the stat isn't adding from the start.

u wot

Winemaking http://puu.sh/io6nL/5b70a7e695.png

Magic Craft http://puu.sh/io74b/73a3dec2c9.png

Axe Mastery http://puu.sh/io75Z/d76869d4fd.png

Bash http://puu.sh/io771/30aa2660f5.png

Nearly all the spots where 0 or - is applicable, its been normal to do -.

Only ones that don't have this for the most part are the Divine Knight Skills as far as I see.

Cause guess who created them~

Such inconsistency :x

I don't see it in the summary. Does anyone know what Celestial Spike's base attack range is, disregarding binding level and Spreading Faith?

Is it really Rank 9+, for all difficulties by just one person?

Hm, I dind't consider the possibility of difficulty being involved.

People only said Rank 9 is needed, and so far, I only tested taht on EASY.

I suppose further testing would be required, but we should at least let the people know something about it for now.

Jiuhin would know more about this since he did the testing entirely, but rA is required for lockdown by a single person on easy, r5 or r4 for normal, and r1 for hard. Two people can lockdown it on easy/normal always at lower ranks, hard I am unsure on as I never got info on testing with that.

It appears that at Normal difficulty, not even Rank 3 Celestial Spike will force him on his knees.

I guess it's either rank 2 or 1. Exspecting 1 on Hard mdoe.

Did a lot of testing for Normal and Hard for minimum amount of total rank required to make him kneel.

Total Spike Rank of 7 (Single Rank A) or higher makes Girgaishy kneel for Easy.

Total Spike Rank of 17 or higher for Normal.

Total Spike Rank of 27 or higher for Hard.

Jiuhin, could you post all the data you got to come to this conclusion?

Also, how do we know the total rank is what matters?

I had my friends helping me with several ranks of Celestial Spike for my data testing. In Hard, I had my friends spike him to check if he kneels, at its minimum amount of total rank (Did for normal as well which is 17). The total rank of spike meaning how many spike are used on him, after successful Shield of Trust during combo in Hard.

• Tried total rank 21 (Rank 5 + Rank 8 Spike), he did not kneel.
• Tried total rank 26 (Rank 5 + Rank 3 Spike), he did not kneel.
• Tried total rank 30 (Rank 3 + Rank 1 Spike), he did kneel.
• Tried total rank 27 (Rank 4 + Rank 3 Spike), he did kneel.

-Spike Rank-

• N = 1
• F = 2
• E = 3
• D = 4
• C = 5
• B = 6
• A = 7
• 9 = 8
• 8 = 9
• 7 = 10
• 6 = 11
• 5 = 12
• 4 = 13
• 3 = 14
• 2 = 15
• 1 = 16

Please post the data that shows that total rank is the determining factor.

The above data is only useful if total rank is what matters.

Might want to mention the "spike rank" in the details, a shortened version that says something like "Rank Novice is 1, rank A is 7, rank 1 is 16, and so forth". Otherwise it can be confusing to some, especially since how the ranking structure is built with letters and descending numbers (I didn't recognize it at first).

From what I've been testing and seeing, Celestial spike can hit anything. It doesn't seem to work if the target is already targeted, but from a normal state anything can be targeted.

What I haven't been able to test however, is states of flight in full. This is easiest done via dragons. Hopefully I can test red dragon and that would mean everything can be targeted.

Additionally, celestial spike does not induce combat state, an elf can hide after using it.

Red dragon flight has different properties than other flights. It works on red dragon, but I don't know if it works on prairie and desert dragons. There's something that it doesn't work on, but I don't know right now. Might be other dragons. Check those.

Doesn't work when black dragon is flying.

Why would you have Invulnerability listed twice? That's redundant.

Also Night Change does not have invincibility. That's just passive defenses.

I was confused for a moment on your first point there, then after looking at the page itself found what you were talking about.

Also, I didn't make the edit about nightmare humanoid.

No, that wasn't really the point I was referring to.

• Health reduction effect stacks with other damage over time effects such as Poison Attack or Mirage Missile, ignores Passive Defense, Invulnerability, and Mana Shield during damage calculation, and can lower a target's HP past 0 and can kill.
• Targeting ignores Invulnerability and invincibility states.

“	2hard for info to edit	„
—Sisterly

It's not because it's too hard, it's because I can't. At all.

The first one is for Damage, the second one is for Targeting. Normally you cannot target anything at all if its invulnerability and invincibility states. I changed the second one from "Targeting and Damage" to just targeting after you pointed that out.

And ye can't edit, well, that's news, and I retract that jest in my edits.

1. Is Celestial Spike affected by defensive stats? If so, which ones? Most likely physical.
2. What Passive Defense's damage reduction, if any, affects Celestial Spike? None; tested it on Wight (Level 3 Heavy Stander) and Zombies (Level 3 Natural Shield and Mana Deflector) and they both took damage normally.
3. I heard using Celestial Spike after Girgashiy's Mineral Hail/Crystal Meteor Shower will stun it longer?

Using Shield of Trust during Girgashiy's Mineral Hail will cause it to be stunned (a spiral will appear around Girgashiy). Using Celestial Spike during his stun will cause him to fall to his knees for another few seconds

In addition to this, if you use Judgment Blade while he's on his knees, I believe he will take more damage than usual from it. I might get back into Mabinogi because the Apostle raids seem interesting to me.

It seems that in order to make Girgashiy kneel after its Mineral Hail is shunted by Shield of Trust (extended stun), the Spiker needs at least rA Celestial Spike.

I've seen many correctly timed sub-rA Celestial Spikes fulfill their training for countering just to have the Girgashiy stand back up without kneeling.

And on the subject of "It also weakens an Apostle's defense against the Smiting skill." I have certainly seen this.

It seems that if Judgment Blade is used on an Apostle who was countered with Celestial Spike (kneeling), he will take two hits from Judgment Blade. One hit for seemingly normal damage, and then a second bit of damage doing more than the first hit.

In your first point, it could vary per difficulty. It also could be that multiple lower ranked spikes can cause Girgashiy to kneel.

Doesn't the Girgashiy in G19 finale kneel from Rank N CS?

Yeah, I forgot to mention that I only tested actively on Easy, oops!

And as Infodude said, it probably is based on difficulty.

I wish I'd tested the other difficulties before I ranked my spike.

(I didn't say that...)

Oh you were just asking if he kneeled from rN. I read wrong and assumed, sorry.

I don't remember much about my own finale fight, other than it being hectic and annoying, so I can't remember if it kneeled from rN CS.

I should ask around and find a rA spiker who can test if it's enough to make Normal/Hard Girgashiy kneel.

No problem, it's easy to get confused with the wrong person these days.

All I remember in my finale is death, death, and more death. I had no opportunity to spike because DEATH.

I guess I got lucky in my finale, since after a minute one of the Girgashiy went out of range and stopped interfering.

Okay, slight update.

Tested multiple times with friends.

Hardmode Girgashiy does not kneel from rA+ Spike. In fact, the highest spike we could test was r3, and that didn't make him kneel either.

Then I did a small amount of testing in Normal. A rank 5 spiker couldn't make him kneel. And a rank 3 spiker couldn't make him kneel.

Either it needs r2/r1 or it just needs more spikers. I can't test any more with these ranks, though. Anyone else got some ideas or info?

It doesn't sound like you ever got him to kneel, regardless of rank.

Sure you guys timed it right, and didn't accidentally hit him right before he landed?

If not then chances are glitch?

I think we timed it right. Got training for Countering with spike. That means the timing was good, right?

And yeah, for our tests, at least with only a single spiker, we never got Normal or Hard Girgashiy to kneel.

In that case, where does the "rank A+" come from?

Testing in Easy mode.

rB didn't make the Easy-level girgashiy kneel, while rA did.

With a single spiker, at any rate.

If you can't get the Normal level to kneel, I'd recommend doubling back to Easy and verifying the requirements there.

Yeah, that'd be good to verify again, but... Hard to double back completely, without skill untrain capsules, though.

See about finding a rB spiker and see if that won't make Easy Girgashiy kneel.

Slightly related but does Shield of Trust causing Girgashiy's stun phase also determined by rank?