Regarding the recent policy changes.

What happened:

NA Nexon representatives contacted us regarding our use of information directly copied from the game client's XML data on equipment templates. They have requested that we remove it. They have requested that we stop using information obtained from data mining altogether. Data mining is a Terms of Service violation, which puts all involved "a precarious situation" as they put it.

Additionally, any information taken from the Public Test Server (PTS) is not allowed. When you signed up to join the PTS, you made an agreement with Nexon that you would not leak information about the new content being tested there. Nexon reps. request that we uphold you to that promise.

What this means for you:

If you are a client data miner, you're going to have to stop putting that information on the wiki. Data mining of overseas clients is a gray issue -- Nexon reps. did not specify -- so we are going to have to disallow that as well.

Nexon reps. did clarify that future content information is fine with them -- as long as it has a web-based source (e.g. foreign server websites like Japanese wiki). This is to prove the information was not from client data.

Furthermore, Nexon does not want to see any references to or discussion of data mining on the wiki either; since the wiki is public, anyone can see it. I had a reference on my user page and they brought it up as an issue, so I removed it. In effect, I highly recommend you remove any reference to client files, mods, etc. from your user pages. If it comes down to a blanket ban on such things, I will let you know. For now, it is your choice. My Nexon account has not been suspended despite my indiscretions, but it is a very real possibility. I don't want the wiki to be responsible for your loss of access to the game.

What this means for the wiki:

Take a look at here and here. That's an estimate of how many pages currently utilize client data (e.g. a lot). All of these pages are going to have to be changed. The "String" parameter on the equipment data templates is what Nexon wants us to remove. Since, however, our most important templates use it, it will be a slow transition. The Nexon reps. understand this and are giving us some leeway.

In effect, we will have to restructure the style templates in such a way that they no longer read from copy/pasted client data.

Sidenote: Please do not remove the string values until we've come up with our new plan of action; it would break many pages, and accurate, accessible information has always been our goal.

We will let you know what the plan is and how you can help as we hammer out the details.

Feel free to ask questions in the this thread. It is a pretty big deal after all!

In other words: getting new weapon's splash damage info = illegal. Que.

*sigh* I always hoped this day wouldn't come but I suppose it was inevitable...
Anyway basically if theirs no means of obtaining the information via the game(including all regions) we can't use it that would include information like

• Data about unimplemented ranks i.e we can't say how much dex is provided by rank 5-1 cooking...
• no splash data of weapon(although we may be able to have a splash category i.e "Huge Splash"

I'll think of more later

Oh, there's a hell of a lot we won't able to obtain without the game files.

• Food effects (upper/lower/weight)
• Hidden skill details
• Hidden shield bonuses
• Human/Elf/Giant/Pets aging/leveling stat values (because most come in floats)
• Drop rates from gathering (without mass testing)
• Base success rates of production skills
• Possible reforges

And a hell of a lot more. I'm getting tired of scrolling through the files to find out what else we won't be able to get without them

Oh, here's a big one.

Determining most of the changes in a patch

You forgot the Skill training requirements being copied as well. (Puppet)

Well, that could be found in the game without digging. It's just a lot quicker if we do dig. :P

Pet stuff too...

Once again, I really, really don't see the need of banning data mining...

So that you can have another reason to dislike Nexon. Not that I don't already have enough. I have too many, in fact.

I almost wise we had a "Master Persuader" to convince Nexon to atleast let us keep some of the data that's not direct copy pasted XML tags after all people may get frustrated with the game if information they want can't be provided due that this new policy...(i.e. "I Want to know the stat gains of a pet before I decide to buy it...")
still maybe I'm just being naive...

Hah, as if any of their representatives would listen to any of us in the first place. But if such a thing were possible, yes, I do, too.

lol I know I just don't like going down without a fight.

In fact, why are we even inclined to listen to Nexon?

Because if you anger them too much they may try to shut the wiki down. Which is kinda why I wanna persuade them rather then outright disobey them. Still I'm with the wiki to the end whatever decision is made.
FOR NARNIA Mabonogi WIKI!!!

But on what grounds? :l

I would have guessed CopyRight or even Reserve Engineering(if you call that a law...) but I'm not a lawyer and if possible I'd like as little collateral damage as possible from this war.
If thing where more ideal Nexon would be handing us game file info to help in the development of the wiki like some other game companies I've heard my friend say they do... but that's not the world we live in.
Anyway I'm just a regular user the decision ultimately falls down to the higher up my voice will easily be silenced with a ban if I choose to defy them, if the wiki gets turned into a place I don't like anymore then I'll move on but... Well I think I need a strategist I just don't know what would be the best next move...

We are not using any of this info for commercial use or releasing files as a whole, so copyright shouldn't be an issue. And reverse engineering isn't illegal, so that shouldn't be one either, if that even applies.

RE is against the ToS, however, utilizing previously reverse engineered information is not and can't realistically be so. However, "disassembling" any files (including packs) is explicitly forbidden by the ToS.

I certainly hope your right about that the last thing I want is for this to escalate out of control.
Anyway I think I'll stand back on this issue, I don't want to do anything that will negatively effect the wiki, I'll leave the decision making to the higher up's.

It had to be said in a semi-official way; that's why I posted this announcement. With that out of the way, the Nexon rep's primary concern was the actual copy-pasting of the XML codes, even in small batches. And taking any information at all from the PTS or PTS patches. And they don't want people talking about where the information comes from.

Basically my whole post was my understanding of what they wanted to see (or rather not see). I put the data-mining section up there because that's what the Nexon rep implied during the short conversation in the IRC.

I will say this: I'm not going to police where you get your information from. This is a volunteer job and I have better things to do with my time.
So, don't ask don't tell? It's not like we're going to remove the information we have so far that came from data. As Kevin said, it's a lot, and if it came to that we may as well just close the wiki >_>. The equipment templates will still have the information that came from data -- parsed into a format that is not direct copy-pasting.

Now they're restricting our freedom of speech?! What's next?

Lets try to find loop holes in this?

It's good to hear to we don't have to actually remove any of the data mined values or stop adding them if anything all we have to do is rearrange the content in the two templates so it's less obvious it comes from the game files the actually weapon/equipment pages can still look and act exactly the same as it does now it's just the template the data comes from will look different which may mean people who don't data mine could construct at least some of the template.
Granted that's alot of work and I hate to see Kevin's work get changed just because Nexon all of a sudden decided "data mining is bad".

I wouldn't call it sudden, it's not like they're closely watching over us.

I agree that removing that portion of the template is a travesty in its own right, as it must have been difficult to make. However, we are only delegating process, so to speak. The majority of the template will still be used, only the processing of the raw XML will be removed, and updated to intake its used arguments as a template would take in any other keys.

I don't find it acceptable to openly discuss loopholes or make ridiculous complaints that they are restricting freedom of speech. Please stop. You should be asking the admin in IRC about this stuff if you have questions, not trying to incite a riot with other people. We don't like it anymore than you do, but try to act mature about it.

I'd just like to mention that this effectively isn't going to change how or what data is presented at all.

We've always maintained a policy of leaving text in Korean until it is officially translated and released in NA, and PTS is not considered officially released. All other content can be obtained from foreign servers unless it is exclusive content to NA. We are still allowed to post content from other servers. But don't go looking through PTS and posting things that aren't translations - just take it from foreign. You won't know what was changed for NA and what wasn't.

In regards to data mining, well, we came upon an agreement that works for both of us. We will not post unnecessary information (eg. item IDs) and we will not directly copy the raw XML or any other similar formats they may use. We will also not allowing posting of methodology. That is the full extent of the agreement. What rules you break in private are on your head alone.

This just begs the question:

What does Nexon lose from allowing data mining?

The only thing I can think of that's befitting of such a game is the element of surprise but, other than that, the benefits of data mining the client (such as success rates, formulas, even CP levels...) is all beneficial for the player as a substitute for Nexon not supplying such (necessary) info themselves.

I'm glad that an agreement has been reached, but really, given the way Nexon has been acting recently, it must be a huge loss for them in some way.

Do we have to get rid of all those capped stat gains, Kevin? I mean, Shakespeare gets Rank 1 in every skill and I'm positive he benefits from those.

I'm not "getting rid" of them. I'm "updating" them.

We don't have to remove any data besides IDs, unnecessary tags, and other things we aren't using.

He's talking about my latest revisions to 3 skill pages. It has nothing to do with this.