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Data Miners

Demonic_Illusion_Handle

FYI, the Demonic Handle is released. I accidentally broke the template, that's the only reason the page looks like that.

I believe Bristingr is referring to this, actually. No data, especially if it's obviously from the client files.

(Though, what's wrong with the template?) 'Kay, it was just an unclosed square bracket.

“	FYI, the Demonic Handle is released	„

Just going to quickly point out that there's a difference between an item's data being "released" (available through data mining) and an item being released (available in-game).

It's released in Korea, making it fair game for the Wiki.

I'm...going to guess that you haven't:

1. Read the MW policy.
2. Kept up with what's been going on regarding data mining.

• Do not add or use information from the Public Test Server.
• Do not copy and paste information from the game's client files.

• Do not directly paste the results of online translators onto future content pages without editing them for clarity. Nonsensical information is as bad as incorrect information.

• Future content info is okay! Just try to use NA server's localized names when appropriate. Make sure to type " {{FutureContent}} " at the top of the page or section to label it as future content.
  • Also, when adding future items/equipment, please check [[:Category:Future Items]] to make sure we don't already have it.

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Mabinogi_World_Wiki:Policy

Not a single thing saying Korean content is not okay.

Additionally, I did not make that template, I broke it trying to input crafting parameters. I looked at multiple data templates for weapons and couldn't figure any of them out because ALL of them use client code like that to define the template parameters.

What I said was in regards to you adding the weapon's stats to the page, not you breaking the template due to your inexperience with templates. Regardless of which method you would have used, you were going to add the weapon stats anyway, so I don't know why you're bringing that up. Unrelated comments aside,

“	*Localize everything to the North American server.	„

^Doesn't just mean the names and descriptions, but item values/stats as well. There have been cases where the stats of an item on the NA server were different from its KR counterpart (i.e. the beam swords), so using the stats from the KR server before it's released technically isn't correct anymore (Before the announcement on the NA forums, it would've been okay, but they made it pretty clear that they don't want people spoiling content). So you either went through the game files and found those stats, or are using the stats of the KR server.

That, and you probably haven't been following the whole data mining announcement on the NA Mabinogi Forums then.

If you read the future content tag above every single page:

"the article may be based on Mabinogi overseas. Details may change before the release."

It's completely fine to use Korean stats because it's not impossible to edit them once the items do reach here. Details can change, and they might.

Also, I have kept up on the announcement of data mining. I even went ahead and searched through several Nexon Forum threads, and found one in which Sabina herself clarified the definition:

• Information from foreign servers is okay
  • Publicly available information, regardless of country, is not data mining
  • Foreign test server information is not okay
  • Foreign client data is not okay
• Public test server data is not okay
• Local client data is not okay.

I think you're still missing the point.

“	No data, especially if it's obviously from the client files.	„

No matter how much you argue to try and justify what you're doing, all you're doing is contributing to the problem, albeit without the intent to do so. and

“	FYI, the Demonic Handle is released	„

This wiki is for NA Mabi. Saying that it's released and not mentioning that you're using data from KR Mabi in the first place makes it look like you're getting the info by other means (data mining being one possibility).

(@Yinato - Um. Maenad didn't add the weapon's stats - that was Kevin, before the policy change. Maenad just added the crafting data, which can be found outside client files. It's just that when the template broke, it showed the Mabi Item ID thing, which is why I removed the template.)

wut o-o Weird, it's showing up as being added by Maenad on my screen. If that's the case, then sorry Maenad, should've brought that up earlier. But the last part I said in my previous response still stands though.

Future content information is fine to add if it has a web-based source, e.g. the Korean gameabout site or JP wiki.

As to this point, the weapon stats can be obtained from gameabout, so dunno why it's not okay to add them.

“	No data, especially if it's obviously from the client files.	„

Ah, I see now. Well, since this is the case, I nominate for deletion, Template:DataTrinity Staff, Template:DataLongsword, Template:DataLong Bow, Template:DataBasic Control Bar, Template:DataLollipop-shaped Sword, Template:DataSoul-Searcher Sword, Template:DataFomor War Sword, Template:DataBattle Mace, Template:DataShaoranen's Bow of Chivalry, Template:DataWisdom of Snakes, Template:DataMaster Lich Wand...

...well that's odd. I can't seem to find a single weapon template that doesn't utilize XML code taken from the client. Looks like we need an entirely new weapon template system.

Yeah, Kevin put a lot of effort in to convert the templates to use XML a while back - which is especially why it hurt when client file stuff was explicitly banned.

Anyways, as per this post a few discussions away, we won't need to delete them - just change them when the opportunity comes.

This update is adding a ton of new weapons. They can't stay without templates forever, so now seems like a good time.

When I have the time, I will be converting all of our current equipment/item pages and the few templates that read xml.

In regard to the beam swords: two versions came out in our server. The stronger ones were removed a week after and whatever.

I've skipped most of this gigantic thread. I'll just spell it out for you guys.

• Content from foreign official servers OKAY
• Content from any test servers BAD
• Content from foreign wikis OKAY

As far as the demonic weapons go, it is okay to add the pages.

The demonic illusion handle information was added by me before the entire xml conflict.

Oh, Maenad already posted someting similar.

@ OP, I know you're trying to make a fool out of us, but you're doing it to yourself.

What about cases where the info posted on foreign wiki clearly came from data mining? Would we be free to post that info, since we were not the ones who obtained it, or does that 'no data-mining' rule apply to even foreign data?

The latter, but, knowing me, I'm not one to strictly enforce it.

apparently lightsabers are out in KR now o-o I made a page for one of them, so-called High Emission Red Beam Sword any comments??

Sure. Doesn't this kind of discussion belong in the Forums?

Not too sure. Here's another so called rainbow beam sword (in JP) Rainbow Beam Sword Someone could probably translate that, not gonna bother to make a page right now. When will Nexon stop coming up with ridiculous weapons....

I thought we dont have these in our files. How is someone getting the description for them then?

For the High Emission Red Beam Sword, I translated it from my head :x

The Beam Swords weren't DevCAT's idea, it was from a design contest. (And Nexon doesn't come up with ideas or make stuff, DevCAT does. > .> People need to learn the difference...)

Eh, there's also a spacesuit...

any other ridiculous items? o.o

A longsword with 1 dura and massive attack power. 1~999.

The dura is about the equivalent of a machete at base dura (It's not exactly one...)? but seriously, it can't be repaired. and I don't quite think it's an enchant either.

I was aware of that one. It cannot be enchanted, repaired. Its durability is just like the ghost sword, not machete. It also seems to me that the event gives out pre-reforged items, and their ranks being random (some people have rank 1, while many others have rank 3). Ice dragon egg also comes out (works just like the flamemare whistle)

Also, somebody wanna change the High Emission Red Beam Sword's title? It should be high effieciency instead and I don't know how to change :x

changed it to Red Beam Sword (High Effieciency). I recall there's also basic and normal ones right?

Yup. Same for green, blue, and rainbow.

Fun...sounds like another...1..2...12 pages. awesome D:<

Well, it's not really necessary to add them...o_o

ehh made redirect pages and disambiguations...haven't made the actual weapons pages because I don't know the stats x.x...technically each one is different though we might not get it, it's still a good idea to get the pages up for anyone who wants to see it.

By the way, never translate descriptions yourself or with a translating program. We only accept official translations from the game in NA.

Beam Sword Stats

Note that the beam sword that I found is different than any grade mentioned in the forum. I feel like it's different for KR and CH/TW

I am aware of Mabidata, if you notice I actually posted in that thread. What I said about descriptions still stands true.

I know, but I'm just saying the info I found was from Mabinogi About KR. So I was wandering if stats for these swords would differ in region.

Hello. I've been working on the game scripts and I am curious: for easier navigation between the Generation quests' scripts as well as the sidequests' scripts that come after, would it be possible for me (or anyone, really) to create a navigation panel between them? I imagine it would work in the same way Template:Generation does.

If it's too tedious/not necessary, then no worries!

EDIT: Oh dear. I just realized there's a notice at the top indicating that this page is only for discussion of the front page. I apologize!

Didn't notice this sry but would recommend posting in the projects section of the forums. It's certainly doable tho!

This has been bugging me for a while. Ever since the dungeon update, a particular mob can have varying strengths depending on the dungeon. Has a design been discussed on how to accommodate this?

I've discussed it with Rydian on several occasions but it hasn't exactly gone anywhere concrete.

There is a mockup here but it isn't entirely satisfying. There are concerns listed there but also like, what happens when there's multiple locations for maps (for world mobs)? It's a concern even for dungeon mobs since some show up in the overworld too (like half of Fiodh/Coill, Imps, etc).

I'm pretty sure you can calculate defense/prot on some mobs, but then there's the newer mobs with really weird tags to make them more difficult (like to remove elemental damage, or to have a stander but hide its visible ping). So the two of us are kind of divided on how to handle "defenses" or if it's even viable.

The current data is...questionable in some places too. I'm not sure there was ever a standard on how to determine damage or detection range/movement speed. It's difficult to be sure they're consistent.

Anyway it's a huge problem and I would be super happy if someone picked it up.

I've had a go at the design over here. Using the mockup as a base, I made a few changes and filled in some data to see what it'd look like. Mainly, skills are separated into "active" and "passive", where active contains skills such as Smash, Counter, Windmill ect. where "passive" contains skills such as Invulnerability, Chain-casting, Standers ect. It could also accommodate any weird tags you mentioned, of which they'd need to be defined beforehand however. As for the multiple map locations, it could be listed as |*Gairech Hill (North) ... |*Gairech Hill (Dragon Ruins) ... and if the stats are shared for the 2 places |*Gairech Hill (North, Dragon Ruins). The template is concise, but sort of messy.

Stepping back, there's also the possibility of keeping the old template and listing monsters by dungeon instead of by type. So instead of a "Bear" page, monsters for a particular area could be listed under that area. But that opens up quite a few more problems, such as duplication and general untidiness. It could be left as is, with only the mobs with variations using the new template, while any standalone mobs keep the old one to avoid wasted space, but the it'd look very inconsistent. Or perhaps location could be replaced with tabs, and stats are displayed according to which location is selected.

Idk. It's a tough problem no doubt. Gonna need to play around with a few more mockups.

I really don't like tabs. Your idea of having them per dungeon/area seems good honestly. The monster data goes into a central template so all of the relevant data can just be there and we can import it thru the relevant monster style based on the page it's in.

We could get rid of family pages (or turn them into links instead or something) and do one per monster I guess, then have locations as a gallery instead of being in the template itself?

I did some research and found that Ragnarok Online has a monster database which sparked some inspiration. Perhaps we could just use a single interface to access monster data instead of hundreds of pages? However, I can't really see the down side to too many pages unless storage is an issue. Further research shows that other games use either family pages, or single pages and list them based on area.

Couldn't find a game that has such a variety of monsters as Mabi, and the games that come close use single pages for each mob. This leads me to believe that consolidating groups of monsters on a single page probably isn't a good idea anymore.

Perhaps a good solution is turning family pages into categories, listing monsters as links on the dungeon/area page and each monster has a unique page. Additionally, on the area page, hovering over the links could provide a small amount of info on the monster such as a picture, HP, CP, Gold and EXP. Or we could swap the hovering for a collapsible table.

Edit: Also just realized if each monster had a separate page, the layout wouldn't have to be compact. We could favour readability over space.

I want to create a page for the Engraved Runestone (from the Chain Slash series of quests), however there are two of them. Technically, after speaking with one of the NPCs in the quest-line, the first Engraved Runestone you receive is "replaced" with a second one. They both share the exact same name and icon, however their descriptions are different. How should I go about making the pages for them?

If it were a piece of gear I would recommend (type 1) and (type 2) but somehow that seems strange for a miscellaneous item. Perhaps the parenthetical could be who gave them to you? Like Engraved Runestone (from Duncan) and Engraved Runestone (from Bespectacled Boy)? Then a disambiguation page at Engraved Runestone

Best I can come up with anyway!

I think I will go with that. Thank you!

Some wing pages have their image codes as long and bothersome to edit in bulk (example) (image re-size also specified), whereas some others have the page code as Clothing Preview (example 2). Is it possible to have Clothing Preview template used, but with Day/Night? (or possibly, a Wing template since a lot of wings now glow?) Also, are image resizes stated for a reason?

The image size is the displayed size, this way we can have large resolution images that are still displayed reasonably on one page.

I will look into adding day/night to the clothing preview template but not right now.

Ahh okay, I wasn't sure if it was needed because clothing in large res is usually resized to fit the page. I'll create pages with with the longer code when I have time then.

I was wondering if anyone was going to make a list of tails or start adding some in, I have a Rurutie's Tail I'd love to add except...I'm not sure what template I should use. I'm new to all this editing stuff so any advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated! :D

Template is kind of the issue x_X Since this is a totally new equip, with its own separate slot. I'm assuming that Rurutie's Tail and the others are still Style-Tab only?

Yup, only style tab. For the clothing preview I think we only need to show the side, back and angled. I saw some tail pages that have already been made but the picture for the front isn't filled so it doesn't look professional...

Yeah, it would require some editing of the ClothingPreview template, and the StyleEquip template - and since both of those templates are used very extensively, I'm a little hesitant on editing them. Maybe if we can poke some Admins back to life... >.o Or someone who has expert knowledge about templates - or, uh, more time for us to understand more, or take a longer look at it... Hm, for now maybe kind of follow what's on the Fluffy Puppy Tail page?

Alright, also how do you add in that box to put gifs in? I looked all over the site but can't find the instructions on how to put it in. :x

Oh! Yeah, usually best to just look at the code of a page that has it - in this case, the code is {{ActionEquip}}

If you view the Wiggling Kitsune Headband page and click Edit, you'll see that code right under == Description ==

But yeah, sometimes codes are hard to track down - You know you've seen it done somewhere but can't remember where, and which code does what isn't always very obvious. Such is the constant battle of editing xD;

Not an admin, but just came back to life :D...

For the time being, use {{Template:TailPreview}} for any future tails that are released.

Since I am not an expert coder - one of the solutions for the missing Front image could be to just move the pic taken from the back of the character to the Front image location and have the Tails ClothingPreview with |noBack=y. That might confuse people just coming along wanting to upload images - but since Tail images aren't exactly exploding in number, I figure we can just watch and edit the images that do get put up.

Sounds good! Just tried to edit the Fluffy Puppy Tail page but I am not sure how you made the file redirect...

Oh! I moved the file, which makes the automatic redirect. While on the file page, near the top of the page next to Read | Edit | View history, there's "More" with a downward pointing arrow. Click that and select "Move". It'll take you to a page where you can rename the file (in this case change to Fluffy Puppy Tail Equipped Front.png) and then just click on "Move Page" and wait and there you go! ^^

Ahh I see, thanks!

I have a Giant only Skill called Might of Ladeca, it's the Giant version of Breath of Ladeca. There's no page for it and I wanted to create one for it, but I don't know how.

I've created the Might of Ladeca page for you, to make things easier. However, next time, all you need to do is type the name of the page you want to make into the search bar, and it will say that the page doesn't exist. Then, you can click the red link to create the page. :D

Thanks. :D

Although in the past we've differentiated between Orbs by adding their end date, would it not make more sense now to name each Orb with its beginning date? How likely is it that, once a current Orb ends, someone is going to go through all the items released in that Orb and change the links? I guess just for archiving purposes, it's nice to know what items came from which Orb, even if they're no longer available from the current Orb.

...Am I making sense? Or rather, does anyone care if I change the name of the current Eweca Orb to Eweca Orb (Ended 2019-9-4)? For easier linking on the new items pages, so no one has to go back and update all of them every time the Eweca Orb is updated o.O;

This is kind of late, but that makes sense. :o I think it's a good idea, but I don't know if we should go ahead without maybe contacting a mod first? x.x

I'm working on adding images, but I don't know how to remove them from the list afterwards.

Sometimes they'll be removed from the list automatically, although you may have to Purge (next to the Search box, press the arrow next to "More"), but sometimes the page the images are on (not the file page itself, but the page the file appears on (like with equip previews)) might have [[Category:NeedPicture]] at the bottom. Just Edit the page and delete that line, and it should be removed from the NeedPicture page. Hope that makes sense ^^;

Thanks for the help! I found the Category:NeedPicture on one of the items and removed it, but it wasn't on the other item page. I tried clicking Purge, though I'm not entirely sure what that does; it didn't do anything for the other items.

The items I found so far that need to be removed are "2012 Giant Premium Winter Newbie Gloves (M)" and "Caravan Joe Kotatsu" if that's of any help.

Oh, right! Yeah, like, with the Caravan Joe Kotatsu page - think you have to actually Edit the page, even if you don't actually do anything to the page, save your Edit - It, I guess, let's the system see that "Oh, there's an image here. We don't need the Category:NeedPicture anymore." So it'll be off that list after the saved Edit. Forgot about that xD; Ah, the mysteries of the wiki /o/

Haha, alright. Thanks again ^^

There's got to be a few missing details or incorrect details regarding the reforges and skill page of sand burst. Could someone take a look at them and see if they are accurate? Specifically, there is no explanation regarding "blinding an enemy for a long time" or variable blind duration. The reforge for CP is also completely useless for sand burst.

There also might be a function we don't know about; sometimes when I blind an enemy they turn purple, as if they were hit by discord.

The page preview system is extremely handy, as we don't have to do trial and error publishing and flood the recent changes area. But what about template pages? They still preview as a wall of text. Wouldn't it be more convenient to be able to have a preview of said template?

Say you're working on a new monster template, but in order to test the template, you have either have to make a dummy sandbox page, or replace the existing one. Clearly both of these are somewhat flawed, as it's pretty easy to make one flop in a template then suddenly you have a wall of text instead of a nice chart for your monster.

So, when editing a template or table, the preview function should show what that template looks like in a page. That way, you can see if the table looks good and functions properly. Opinions?

What sort of templates are you talking about? Actual templates (Equipment Item) or data templates (specific item data, e.g. Template:Data<Item Name>)?

Specific data templates. Such as Template:DataMonsterX

Use the template inside the the data. E.g.

{{{{{1|StyleEquip}}}
|Name=...
}}

See Template:DataTropical_Beach_Sandals_(F) as example I just did.

Could you give me that code in data monster form?

Just replace the "StyleEquip" with the template you wish you default it to. For monsters, "StyleMonster"

See http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Template:DataMonsterYoung_Brown_Fox&curid=70264&diff=666378&oldid=627205

So I was wondering why this added preview wasn't done on data pages before. For your Tropical Beach Sandals example, the Template doesn't show up under "Reforgable Equipment", even though on the Template:DataTropical_Beach_Sandals_(F) page it's listed as one of the Categories at the bottom of the page. This is a good thing, since you don't want certain Categories flooded with Templates, but I was just wondering if perhaps that was the reason that {{{{{1|StyleEquip}}} |Name=... }} was used only for previewing your work, and then changed back to {{{{{1}}} |Name=... }} in case it added the Template to some Categories.

So basically - does keeping the "StyleEquip" in the item's Template page have any negative side effects? Just if you happen to know - thank you ^^;

For your Tropical Beach Sandals example, the Template doesn't show up under "Reforgable Equipment", even though on the Template:DataTropical_Beach_Sandals_(F) page it's listed as one of the Categories at the bottom of the page.

Actually, it does, under "DataTropical...". http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Category:Reforgable_Equipment&pagefrom=D

That being one of the reasons they weren't included from the beginning I guess.

As to other side effects, I don't know of any off the top of my head.

Oh - hey there... Well, good to know not to look under "T" for "Template" but instead under "D" for "Template:Data" - because Wiki /o/

But all right, yeah, wouldn't want to have Template:Datas clogging up the Categories xD;

Was considering the Mir Dragon, but wanted some more information about it. :V

I could datamine and make the Mir page, but the last time I did that it took hours to get all the information in there. Is there any specific information you are looking for, like stats, skills, aging stat gains, etc.?

Available skill and stats, I suppose. If you're mining, see if you can find out if it can learn Windmill through a rebirth too. :^)

Also, no one wrote in the news about the pet being on sale. Which was very weird.

Here's some info on the dragon for you!

Exp_Factor = "1.8" LimitTime = "150" Init_Life = "80" Init_Mana = "39" Init_Stamina = "77" Init_STR = "47" Init_INT = "32" Init_DEX = "36" Init_WILL = "40" Init_LUCK = "29" Init_Defence = "0" Init_Protect = "2"

It can learn rest, defense, smash, counter, combat mastery, crit, windmill, Healing, lightning bolt, firebolt, icebolt, "OrientalDragonSummon", Boost, RageOfDragon, and First aid.

Also, the wiki is running on quite the skeleton crew these days, so don't be surprised if some events are completely missed. If there's anything else I can figure out for you, let me know!

Love

Actually ther eis one more thing, since you're already into mining. I know that pet spiders and laghodessas doens't come with WIndmill natively. But can they learn it through the proccess of rebirthing from a pet who can?

I know you can do this with most bolt magic skills on pets, but it's an expensive gamble.

IIRC, even if you can learn the skill through pet rebirthing, you're not guaranteed to be able to use it.

Mining the client won't be able to tell you that, since checks are server-sided.

A difficult question. So far as I can tell, in order for a pet to be allowed to use windmil it needs to be tagged with /pet_windmill_enable/ in the race.xml file. So it is difficult to tell whether any individual pet can use it without looking up te pet first. I do know that the white flame spider and guardian spider don't have that tag. I did a quick scan, and it looks like only the pets that start with windmill can acually use it. Sorry for the bad news!

Ah, that's terrible. The Spiked Laghodessas can use Windmill. >:V

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Succubus_fiend

if somebody could fill in all the correct formatting for where pictures and info should go

im pretty sure what i currently have is wrong

yea, the Succubus Fiend is a considered a monster so a Monster Template would most likely need to go in there....possibly in the Succubus Section.

Also, that format is usually for Equipment to see what they look like in-game.

This would possibly be the correct area to add info of the Succubus Queen and Fiend. http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Succubus

Specifically since a long time ago they decided we should not have individual pages for every monster (since there are often several different versions of a monster with the same name) and instead pages for each type of monster.

To add the succubus fiend you would want to copy one of the existing lines, but replace the name with succubus fiend. Like so:

Succubus Fiend

	Field Location	None		Dungeon	Rabbie Phantasm Rabbie Phantasm Mirror
	Melee Hits		Melee Damage		Ranged Damage	None
	Running Speed	Detection Speed	Detection Range	Aggressive	Aggression	Element
	Normal	Very Fast	Unlimited	Will attack unprovoked Yes 100	Multi	Unknown
	Skills Used
	Hit Points	Def. (Prot.)	Experience	Gold	Critical	Combat Power
	76920	? (?)	33899.58	?	Unknown	39242
Drops Misc. Equipment Succubus Fiend Wings
Notes & Advice Notes Is capable of chaining Gunslinger skills extremely fast, to the point of stunlocking the player. Tends to use Way of the Gun when hit repeatedly. Has a chance to give the player Succubus Scriptures upon being hit (if the player has the Dreamy Story quest.) Only the versions that spawn in rooms drop items, Fiends summoned by the Succubus Queen drop nothing. Tends to switch aggro to different players frequently. Equipped with Celtic Dowra Ace that have 2,000 bullet magazines. Advice It is heavily recommended to take down Succubus Fiends first before attacking any other monster.

Then after you save the page you can click the red link you just created to fill out the data template page for the Succubus Fiend, again using an existing succubus as a guide. If you're not sure of something just leave it blank. You will want to delete this page later probably because it also does not have proper capitalization.

My inv doesn't seem to respond to whatever i do, it wont even let me take off my equips. If i try to move something from my inv it just doesnt move. I tried relogging like 9 times and also tried restarting Mabi a few times but nothing worked. My pets' inventory is just the same. I could use some help..

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Seal_Stone_Research_Almanac_:_Rabbie_Dungeon

its tradeable!!

got one from fishing on hs with the event baits

if i stick an active totem like "Witch's Ring" into the VIP tab and that tab expires will i still keep the totem's bonuses or would i need to reactivate the VIP tab or keep them in a bag on the main inventory ?

welp, I can answer that, as it just happened to me.

you'll need to reactivate the VIP tab or place them outside of the VIP tab to activate them again.

I had like 4 different totems in there and they all dis-activated.

that sucks x.x such lameness back to eating an entire bag they go

So it's no secret the vB is rotting away with upwards of like three users. A couple of years ago before Khenta disappeared he and I were really pushing for a forum extension on the Wiki instead, so anyone with a wiki account essentially wouldn't have an excuse to not post. saiyr was against this because all the extensions were shoddy and undermaintained, which is reasonable just unhelpful.

Well it's a new year and people are bringing stuff up to me again, and I'd like to go through with it now. WikiForum (with SocialProfile) isn't terrible. Basically what I want to do is close the vB to new posts and leave it as an archive, then just open/configure WikiForum here in a similar style. I can't say this really affects DFO-World or anything since they've never used the forums, Cq you will actually have to make a wiki account <3, but otherwise I don't think it will have any negative effect, I only see positives.

The forums would be for general discussions like upcoming stuff, event discussion, h2b pro, trades, guilds, etc. This means that we'd relegate discussion pages exclusively to discussion about the page as it matters to the wiki (formatting, factual content, and so forth).

Additionally, I understand that people want to contribute non-factual information as well and the discussion page is, well, cumbersome for simply adding opinions and tips. Therefore, I want to add commenting to relevant articles (likely not all articles) where people can add tips, tricks, suggested enchants, suggested training regimens, links to their tutorials, etc. This extension has upvoting so it even provides an amount of feedback to the poster as well as other users.

Anyways, thoughts plz. Mainly do you think you'd use these things, what would you use them for, what forums do you want to see, what pages should comments be on (or not be on), etc. Let me know!!

Yespls. I think these features would be well worth having. No one knows that MabiWorld has forums anyway. Commenting seems like a wonderful place for people to stick those, uh, not-exactly-fitting tidnits of info they like to make up gather.

How would it be determined which articles qualify to be commented on?

I dunno, that's why I'm asking! But I think definitely gear and probably enemies. Probably isn't necessary for normal enemies but at least bosses. This sort of begs the question of if we should move bosses out of family pages, though (like Gold-tailed Mongoose).

Would these comments be on a separate page, like the talk page, or would they be somewhere on the page like on wikia? Can people comment without registering? This all sounds good so far.

My only issue with the boss thing is, sometimes its subjective what is a boss. We could chop it down to just Dungeon, Field, and Mission Bosses, but what about normal enemies that can be interpreted as bosses like the Bandit Ogres? I could see future problems like "Is Shamala and Nightmare 'G17'?"

That being said, I think a good solution would be to make a Field Bosses, Dungeon Bosses, etc page, and list them on both (which is kinda the point in having data templates), and allow commenting on that. As for those other kinda-bosses, I'm not sure what would be a good source of action. For Bandits you could always allow commenting on the Commerce page, as well as other "systems" like that. Maybe I'm making a big deal over nothing.

The comments would be at the bottom of the main page. We can't allow commenting without registering though, we get far too many bots.

Boss thing, it doesn't really matter. Whatever needs strategy notes, really. I say not normal mobs only because it's trivial to kill them. The reason I bring up separating them from the family pages is because I don't want comments to be so unorganized you know? If there's two bosses on a family page, and only one set of comments (there can only be one comment block per page) they'll get jumbled up, and with upvoting some could be unfortunately overshadowed. Anyway that's my logic on that. We can always try and see how it works out, too.

From various other wikis, in general comments are mainly used either for actual discussion of the topic, or non-editors wanting to point out updates/corrections but not knowing enough or being brave enough to do it themselves. I've certainly looked at comments on pages on other wikis and then gone in-game to test stuff and then updated the page when it was found to be correct, if that helps.

How useful it could be on rarely-visit pages, I don't know. Comments should definitely have a clear and visible timestamp to help filter old info from new.

This seems like the point of the discussion page to me. In my mind the comments are more like tips from the pros, the opinionated stuff we don't allow on the main article but with proper ownership, visibility, and separation from non-game stuff (ie. wiki stuff). If that's a particularly common use of commenting though then people may use our commenting system for that regardless and I don't want it to seem like we're policing comments. In these cases, what do they use the discussion page for, or do they even have one?

Timestamp is a good idea. Seems like they have a "xx years/months/weeks/days ago" type thing which is good, but I hadn't looked for it before.

Another option is dropping liquid threads and using the commenting system on the discussion page too. They'd be different comments from the main page and could fit my scheme of ig v wiki. I mean if people generally prefer a comment style thing like that, I dunno, maybe liquid threads is too cumbersome? Titles are annoying?? I dunno?

Separate discussion pages for articles are a wiki thing. I tend to see comment systems used by the less wiki-oriented people since comments are more visible as a "give your thoughts" method of input when people aren't trying to dedicate themselves to a discussion and just want to point something out or mention it or ask a quick question.

Things like...

"Why does this say x on the page? It says y in-game right now."

"Lol mix this item with x and your y goes up to z it's great."

"Does this come with x or do I need to do something special when I get it?"

"Man I like this item a lot but when it does x it's annoying."

"^ - Yo dawg you can turn that off in the settings."

"Hey so this thing appears to do x but it's not listed."

"^ - It's probably an effect from y if you have that equipped as well."

Of course there's going to be random comments, fanboys, spam, and stuff like that... but it's from comments like the examples that I and other users know what needs to be done on a page for further info, corrections, or clarification.

Of course with the smaller player base of Mabinogi the comment system probably won't generate as much useful info...

Is having the ability to "dedicate yourself to a discussion" even valuable?

Does this mean we will no longer have fun off-topic threads? ;~;

You'd at least have to restart them. I wonder if I could make a single forum not show up in recent changes...

I take it you still want a forum games section, then.

Well it would indeed be nice to have something off-topic, since that's going away. =c

Also, maybe a section for price checks or something, I can see people going into those comments like "Price check for this item on Mari pls!".

Well I've installed/set up/opened the forums now, please continue the discussion of comments here.

Alright so I saw this method on a few Koren Mabinogi blogs and was wondering why we weren't using it: they raise the weapon using Judgment Blade's animation to hold the weapon above the character. This way there's often less risk of clipping and makes it look a lot more focused on just the weapon.
So, wouldn't it be nice if we could use that for Weapon Previews instead of what we have now? I already talked about it with Kadalyn and she didn't seem against it.
Here's a few examples (These should obviously be cropped and angled better if possible):

• Dagger
• Fanatic Greatsword
• Hagi's Shuriken
• Dowra's Golden Gun
• Demonic Oculus Lance
• Celtic Royal Warrior Hammer
• Bhafel Hunter/Black Dragon Knight Bow (This was done using the "yes" gesture, since bows are an exception to weapons being held up)

Let's just mod the players so they're invisible and just get the weapons.

On a more serious note, doesn't really matter to me. As long as we can see the actual item.

Where there is a will, there is a way~

Although I can get close, the camera can't be pointed straight down, otherwise this or this could have worked.

I think it sounds like a great idea. I think we should still keep a copy of the default weapon pose, though not necessarily as the main image, but even if not, this sounds great.

I was wondering if it's possible for someone to rename the "Demonic Equipment" page. I was doing some research on weapons through the wiki home and I noticed that the Demonic items were under "Equipment." Now I know technically all weapons are "equipment" but according to whats listed, the only demonic Item that counts as "equipment" is the Unholy Fear Shield while the other items count as weapons. So I thought the demonic stuff should be listed under "Weapons" as well. I also went to the Weapons page and saw that "Demonic Equipment" wasn't added to the page. So I wondered if someone can rename the "Demonic Equipment" to "Demonic Weapons" then put them as a category in the "Weapons page" as well as under the "Weapons list" on the homepage (Before Divine Weapons respectfully since they came out before Divines but after Legendary Weapons.) I also saw that Celtic Weapons are not listed under Weapons on the home page but are listed on the Weapons page itself. I was wondering if it'd be cool if someone could do edit that too.

P.S. The Celtic Weapons didn't work when I tried to make it into a link but the page exists so I'm not 100% sure why that happened.

"Demonic Equipment" was originally named "Demonic Weapons", but was renamed because of the Fear Shield. I'm not sure if anyone will agree to revert the name, but I think simply leaving a weapon category will do.

Well in terms of divine weapons they would have armors and shields so I can understand a name change but with demonic weapons the only "equipment" is one item. The majority of it being weapons. I understand kinda for more than one item but just one item? I say whichever has the most items should determine category. Majority weapons so Demonic weapons. eh idk. it seems silly to me but at least it was moved on the home page to the weapons list so ty for that.

however, if we turned it back into Demonic weapons, i feel like either people would wonder why a shield (technically 2, but they're 2 versions of the same weapon) is in there or that we'd be ignoring said shields

you wouldn't stick 5 guys and a girl in a group and call it a group of men would you?

Depends. Because "men" can mean "human being", which in that case would work. SuchIsLife.png

this might become a topic for discussion about the divine weapons category too once g20 comes out, as it brings the divine shield and some divine armors...

lol Well as an attempt not to sound sexist I would still call the group a group of men...Mostly for the reasons that if I didn't some ultra sensitive feminist somewhere might cop an attitude and get upset over it.

Anyways I do have a good compromise here to resolve both situations, the Demonic Weapons and the Divine weapons when they come. Why not use both? Title the pages/links "Demonic Weapons and Equipment" & "Divine Weapons and Equipment." Seems like a simple solution that addresses both item types and states them accurately with no confusion.

Weapons ⊂ Equipment

But weapons are equipment 8U.

Y'all people have for some reason completely forgotten the existence of subcategories.

^ She's right you know. Just make it a subcategory in the category it belongs in.

I was actually waiting for people to remember the existence of subcategories. But then I gave up.

I know weapons are equipment. At this point I'm just talking about how the pages are named so it would define between general equipment like headgear, shields etc and actual weapons. Just a thought

And again, subcategories are a thing for that exact reason.

You put everything in "X Equipment" category, and then separate everything in that with "X Weapon" or "X Headgear", etc.

hmm, I guess.