Talk:Wiki Home

I get that they're excited for something new, but -insert my previous post-.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

If you get that they are excited for something new, then your previous post makes no sense.

“	As for excitement and eagerness, I'm not disallowing them to be. But there comes a point where that excitement gets obnoxious, and constantly asking for release dates is one of those points.	„

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

That's different than your previous post... at least in this section of the thread.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η [͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]‎15:18, August 3, 2013
͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η [͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]‎15:20, August 3, 2013

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

Actually from my experience, it's not that much of a new mechanic:

Flash Launcher: Melee Heat Buster that's strong
Bullet Slide: Ranged Heat Buster that's instant
Grapple Shot: Charge that can be used on anything (and barely stuns)

What is new is:

Bullet Storm: Just four ranged AoE attacks that stuns a bit
Shooting Rush: Teleportation+AoE damage with partial immunity to being targeted

I found guns fun but I agree with Kevin, it's not that huge of a deal.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

Bullets to the head man...bullets to the head. Head shots all day and watch as a pathetic line of gunslingers raid the beginner areas of Tir, Filia, and Physis.

"watch as a pathetic line of gunslingers raid the beginner areas of Tir, Filia, and Physis"
Yep. Couldn't have said it better myself.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

gunslinger just fits so well as a subclass for a fighter xP

Pallotta (talk)‎

If you really think that, you're going to become a very, very bad gunslinger.

This is why I don't see why people are anticipating it so badly. Most of them don't even know what they're doing; they just see guns and go "OMG NEED." and have no clue as to what they're doing.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

..because people can be expected to know how to play a new skill set before it comes out. You could just let them be excited for something new and different and let them find out how it suits them

WhitePass (talk)‎

“	..because people can be expected to know how to play a new skill set before it comes out.	„

Hence why I'm saying what I'm saying. They're jumping into the pool without having tested the water. You're given a wiki full of resources, even those that are on these new skills. You're given the chance to learn to play the new skill set before it comes out. But nop. Full head-first dive to the pool of ice cold water.

As for excitement and eagerness, I'm not disallowing them to be. But there comes a point where that excitement gets obnoxious, and constantly asking for release dates is one of those points.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

please tell me, how can reading about these skills show me what it's like to play with them.

Since you apparently missed my sarcasm, standard user does not have any outlet to test the gameplay of a new skill, hence they are eager to try it out when it comes. We have no opportunity to play the new skill set before it comes out.

WhitePass (talk)‎

I'm guessing you don't know what "YouTube" is.

And don't worry, your sarcasm wasn't missed.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

watching and playing are very different things.

WhitePass (talk)‎

I never said they were the same. But watching achieves what you wanted, getting an idea of what the gameplay is like, learning how to use it, studying the gameplay before it comes out. Oh wait, isn't that what

“	people can be expected to know how to play a new skill set before it comes out	„

this was all about?!

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

That was sarcasm, you cannot expect someone to know what it feels like to play a skillset, or really how to properly execute before it's out and they have a chance to try for themselves, and watching only shows you what it looks like, not what it feels like. There is and always will be a huge disconnect between seeing and doing.

You can watch a youtube video 1000 times and watch someone pull off something cool or amazing, but that doesn't tell you what it feels like to pull it off, or how difficult it is in general.

You simply cannot watch something and know how fun it is to do it.

WhitePass (talk)‎

For the last time, yes, I know that was sarcasm.

And again, like I said, I know they're two different things. That does not prevent you from learning about it (the entire point of this?).

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

Because it's the same youtube videos which get people excited and make them want to try it. It just seems like you feel this sentiment of theirs is in error.

WhitePass (talk)‎

“	As for excitement and eagerness, I'm not disallowing them to be. But there comes a point where that excitement gets obnoxious, and constantly asking for release dates is one of those points.	„

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

Personally, I do feel videos can replace gameplay experience of how skills work IF you have very descriptive text, but that's besides the point. Why are you two talking about it? Not like it will help or harm the wiki or change anything about it, lets just end it here.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

I think people just want to be "top gun." Ahh? AHHH? ...I'm surprised no one made this joke yet.

~~͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η is a nib. Don't listen to his nibby ramblings.~~

Anyway, according to KR Testers the Side Story is an interview with the Saga NPCs for their back story or something.

鍾国豪-BIassreiter (talk)‎

On the forum, Sabina or something like that said it comes out on episode 7. Whoever it was they worked for Nexon.

Willi096 (talk)‎

Sabina is a community manager if I am not mistaken and works closely with the staff (supposedly). I'm not to eager for gunslinging ever since DFO closed. my dreams as a gunslinger will remain in the data graveyard that is, Nexon.

Was DFO's Gunner class really that wonderful?

Yes. I was a Corsair (an awakened Female ranger) and running around shooting things to bits while utilizing +12 reinforced revolvers at the lv cap was the best thing ever. I even went around and sluaghtered countless billions with the awakening skill that is, Guns with blades tied at the end of the handle with chains and swinging those badboys around while wearing a cowboy hat, and boots. dam those were the days.

Actually, it doesn't come out AT the 9th. It comes out in a maintenance a few days earlier. Probably on Wednesday (7th) or Thursday (8th).

If you're talking about implementation, you still wouldn't be able to obtain the skills nor the guns themselves if op is correct. And if that's the case (for clarification [becauseiknowyou'regoingtomisunderstand], about implementation), then wrong: they've already come out.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

I don't understand what you mean. The landscape changes to Iria, the Raid System, Explore Uncap to 30, Tara changes, and etc existed on a Thursday which was before Episode 1 launched. White Dragon Raid and the Shapeshifting forms existed on a Wednesday before Episode 4 launched.

“	if	„

Small word, large significance.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

Not to mention, doubtful. If anything, it'll be similar to how fighter and puppetry skills were released: with a so-called "sidequest". And if it is, then op would be correct.

Besides, all those changes were small changes that had little to nothing to even do with the storyline (other than b/w dragon raid). On the other hand, dual gun is an entire talent class, weapon set, and skillset. I'm doubtful it'll just appear out of nowhere.

Sidenote: are guns even sold by any NPCs?

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

The Zeder Gun is sold in the mines and by a new NPC near every trade post. The rest are all from Engineering with the exception of Golden Dowra and Black Star which were from G18 in KR, a gachapon for JP, and unknown for NA.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

You were able to obtain the skills immediately on implantation in KR and JP.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

You mean through that Talent Beginner Quest or?

I meant you could obtain as soon as it came out in the maint through normal methods.

A: Get the first skill, rank it up, get two more, rank up one of those two new ones, get two more, etc.
B: Do a series of tutorial quests if you RBed into the correct talent.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

Anyway, it'll probably be implemented somewhere around the 6th (Tuesday), since that's when the Sand Sculpture Event ends.

6th or 7th.

[1]

oh nooooo that last werd.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

Removing Stat Improvement from Training Method section in Skill pages.

I just find it useless to have those two information in the Training Method section when there's a table that's much more navigable. That and the fact that we don't really need it for Training Methods. I think the only places that should keep Effects is Life Skills, mainly due to different ranks giving access to certain things, unless there are some other skills like that.

Second issue I have is that, people don't update the Training Method section along with the table. It's easier to edit the Skill Table itself, so I see why any newer editor may ignore it. + Easier to avoid confusion when there's only one place to add information.

Sounds good to me.

Meru (talk)‎

I agree. Some skills likes Magic Craft, it would be notable to includes that "you can star crafting weapons at x rank", not necessarily in the individual rank sections, but somewhere relevant. But I don't think +x stats should be mentioned multiple times in multiple locations on a single page.

Kapra - (Talk)‎

Have we not decided a final decision? Anyway I'm completely neutral about this, but it does seem to stretch the pages sometimes.

I agree with removing any information which is already presented in the table. However, like you mentioned, for life skills like Blacksmithing we should definitely keep information like "finishing cursor becomes smaller" and the guaranteed production quality bonuses.

On a similar note with Magic Craft (and similar skills) I find it excessively redundant to state that you can craft mana bullets on every single rank. It generally goes without saying that if I can make something at rank F, I should also be able to make it after rank F. We should probably cut those down to just label the first rank a type of production is possible is possible.

Shroom Fonzerelli (talk)‎

I think we should just put that in the skill details section.

Meru (talk)‎

or perhaps a bulleted list after the table

Shroom Fonzerelli (talk)‎

That works for me. Since it's a summary and all.

Meru (talk)‎

My opinion on this is that, the Summary is a "tl;dr" chart for players who don't want to read everything, while the Training Method is more of the "details," where you look more in depth of each rank. Having the AP Requirement, and Stats Improvement beside one another helps with comparing each Rank, while reducing the amount of times you need to go up and down the page to look at the Summary, and back at the Training Rank. I do agree with removing the Effects list, as a lot of skills' effects are very redundant (like what Shroom said about Magic Craft).

Another note to take into consideration is of the new players/visitors that use the wiki. The Summary chart may be very confusing while starting out. Having a "backup" for players would help them get around the wiki and get used to how the formatting is.

Kiyoura (talk)‎

But the chart also has side by side improvements next to ap requirement, and it is a far more efficient comparison of ap and stats (at least when we put it there instead of just totals). I'm not really seeing the confusing part of summary chart. Everything is clearly labeled what it is. I'd like to hope people can read a chart, or that they at least played the game somewhat. A lot of beginners don't even know about the wiki. While I agree that things should try to not be confusing, I'm a little against over doing it. Has anyone made new accounts for characters for how they handle these things in game now? Not that I'd expect people to even read things in game anymore (it seems like the case a lot). Personally, it's a hassle to have to scroll all the way down to find out when I can make something. I'd much largely prefer it under the summary box. The section for training and stats and ap is currently called just "training method". If we were to keep it the way it is now, I'd like to suggest renaming it to "Skill Training and Info" to better describe the section.

Meru (talk)‎

"A lot of beginners don't even know about the wiki."

The number of veterans or just average players asking newbies the check out the wiki is high, however. Many players will tell newbies to check the wiki, whether in-game or in the forums.

Though as Meru said, I don't really see how the chart is complicating. It's pretty darn simple and a chart like that shows up everywhere.

Though my problem remains the same, it's the updating of both Training Methods and Summary. Some skills have two completely different information, mainly because people chose to update one and not the other.

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Defense

Can you give an example of that two completely different information thing and explain a little better?

Meru (talk)‎

Go compare the Summary and Training Methods.

Oh, that's what you meant. I guess I read that wrong. It seems the summary chart is the more updated while rank 1 is updated for humans, and the rest not updated at all.

Meru (talk)‎

And that's my general problem with having one information on two different section of a page. Inconsistency and lack of updates on one section.

Okay then we are all good to go with the plan then? Any more thoughts kiyoura?

Meru (talk)‎

I had a thought while perusing Act 6: Crisis which I have recently shaved. While looking at the training methods I had in store, I also wanted to know how much AP I would need if I trained it right now, but I had to scroll back to the top of the page to see (I need about 200 to finish), which is probably why the extra information started appearing there in the first place.

What I think is most beneficial for both sides of the fence, is any question that starts with "What rank do I need to do/have/make [x]?" should be answered in the table or in a production list. On the other hand, any question that starts with "What do I need to get to the next rank of [y]?" should be answered in the training method list below. In this case, we could theoretically make it part of the table (probably not the most appealing), or just type them in without a template (crazy, I know). This both lessens the burden of tedious updates for skill changes while having the most useful information present when needed.

Shroom Fonzerelli (talk)‎

So, you think we should at least have the ap needed in the training method section? I believe we were just copying the Japanese wiki format for the skill training section. I know that when I was looking at the tailoring skill a lot, I always had to scroll down to the very bottom to see the tailoring rank bonuses (we have since moved a section from the tailored items list to the main tailoring page). We could change the "AP:" part to "AP needed:" instead. I'm not really feeling the formatting of the tailoring page, but I can't really think of anything better right now. Wish it looked a little cleaner, I suppose.

Meru (talk)‎

I don't mind keeping AP. It can also be useful to training it, I guess.

So, is there a definite consensus to the original question at hand here? I'm new around here, but I wouldn't mind going through the skill pages to clean them like what was suggested, and like what some people are already doing from what I've noticed. So far from what I can understand is probably to remove the stat improvements and possibly keep the AP required for each rank. Anything else in mind though?

Edit: Posted here since I kinda changed then reverted what I did on the Assault Slash page after I noticed this discussion, which kinda spammed the edit history, sorry about that.

Silentlime (talk)‎

For the longest time the Wiki has had those listed under each rank. It would seem pretty bizarre that you would want to remove all that from the statistics.

If your going to want to make a move on this leave it on the suggestions/discussion page for proper means of going about this, otherwise leave things as they are or you will have the whole wiki community on the alert.

Larsa (talk)‎

We might as well start up this discussion again. I'm in favor of removing the effects, but keeping the AP cost. However, we need to keep in mind that some skills have different AP costs depending on race. There's also the concern that AP costs displayed in the training methods section is not the same as what's displayed in the summary table.

Blargel (talk)‎

Alright, thanks for the reply. I'll leave things as they are right now until we get a definite agreement on this. I was confused whether this was settled or not since there are some skill pages where the AP, Effects, and Stat Improvements are already removed, not including the one I initially was looking at. Unless it was asked to be done to see how it looks like.

Edit: I also am in favor of just at least having the AP needed there, as well as renaming the "AP" part as "AP Needed".

Silentlime (talk)‎

Woah forgot about this. I'm with Blargel on the keep the AP but remove the effects.

Sakura502 (talk)‎

Two Items, Same Name

I want to create a page for the Engraved Runestone (from the Chain Slash series of quests), however there are two of them. Technically, after speaking with one of the NPCs in the quest-line, the first Engraved Runestone you receive is "replaced" with a second one. They both share the exact same name and icon, however their descriptions are different. How should I go about making the pages for them?

Lalunae (talk)‎

If it were a piece of gear I would recommend (type 1) and (type 2) but somehow that seems strange for a miscellaneous item. Perhaps the parenthetical could be who gave them to you? Like Engraved Runestone (from Duncan) and Engraved Runestone (from Bespectacled Boy)? Then a disambiguation page at Engraved Runestone

Best I can come up with anyway!

Kadalyn (talk)‎

I think I will go with that. Thank you!

Lalunae (talk)‎

Merchant exclusive patterns and manuals

Can we get a some sort of list compiling sewing patterns and blacksmithing manuals altogether?

The list could include the rank, completion per success, where it drops from, etc.

I'll start with what I found: Blacksmith Manual: Birnam Plate Gauntlets, Rank: 7, drops from Lingering Darkness elite

I have yet to find its completion per success, since I'm not merchant destiny :x

Will still have to pull the translations from the language file, but these were marked as part of the merchant destiny in manualform.xml

Tailoring: <ManualForm ManualType="1" ManualItemID="60044" FormID="359" ProductItemID="19088" MerchantExp="35000" ManualNameEng="Tailoring Manual - Druid's Robe (M)" ManualNameLocal="_LT[xml.manualform.3398]" ManualDesc="_LT[xml.manualform.3414]" Level="13" Title="_LT[xml.manualform.3430]" EssentialDesc="_LT[xml.manualform.3447]" Essentials="*/tailor/silk/04/, 3; */tailor/texture/04/, 2; */tailor/dyestuff/toughyarn/, 5" CompleteDesc="_LT[xml.manualform.2568]" CompleteEssentials="(*/tailor/dyestuff/04/, 1; */weaving/yarn/03/, 5)" Desc="_LT[xml.manualform.3479]" Price="11500" MaxProgress="0.15" MaxProgressBonusInRain="0.1" Generation="15" Season="3" PrivateJob="merchant;" />

Blacksmith: <ManualForm ManualType="2" ManualItemID="64581" FormID="20253" ProductItemID="13164" MerchantExp="45200" ManualNameEng="BlackSmith Manual - Birnam Plate Armor" ManualNameLocal="_LT[xml.manualform.3402]" ManualDesc="_LT[xml.manualform.3418]" Level="14" Title="_LT[xml.manualform.3434]" EssentialDesc="_LT[xml.manualform.3395]" Essentials="*/ingot/ironingot/*, 10; */tailor/leather_strap/03/, 2; */tailor/leather_strap/04/, 2" CompleteDesc="_LT[xml.manualform.3396]" CompleteEssentials="(*/tailor/texture/04/, 1; */tailor/silk/04/, 2; */tailor/leather/04/*, 2)" Desc="_LT[xml.manualform.3483]" Price="72000" MaxProgress="0.1" MaxProgressBonusInRain="0.1" Generation="15" Season="3" PrivateJob="merchant;" />

wait a minute... that last one is Bracer Knuckle, which is out in G16.... >.>

and do these give out information on were these patterns or manuals drop?

No, it just the data about the manual itself. It doesn't give any information about the manual's or pattern's location.

hmm its quite interesting to raw data for the first time for myself, although most of it seems self explanatory I am just wondering if anyone knows what item "/weaving/yarn/03/" is?

Laden‎

It's probably one of the Finishing Threads.

hmm yeah that makes a lot of sense

"/weaving/yarn/01/" = Cheap Finishing Thread
"/weaving/yarn/02/" = Common Finishing Thread
"/weaving/yarn/03/" = Fine Finishing Thread
"/weaving/yarn/04/" = Finest Finishing Thread

lol guess i just got confused by the whole "yarn" thing
Thanks for the reply

Laden‎

I'll pull the info from the language files tomorrow, just to be sure.

Ok, here is the translated version with parameters renamed to match Wiki's templates

Tailoring: <ManualForm |ProductionExp=35000 |Name=Druid Robe (M) |ManualRank=3 |RecipePerTry=Finest Silk × 3, Finest Fabric × 2, Tough Thread × 5 |RecipeFinish=Finest Finishing Thread × 1, Braid × 5 |Price=11500 |CraftPercent=15 |RainBonus=10 |Generation=15 |Season=3 |Destiny=Merchant />

Blacksmith: <ManualForm |ProductionExp=45200 |Name=Birnam Plate Armor |ManualRank=2 |RecipePerTry=Iron Ingot × 10, Fine Leather Strap × 2, Finest Leather Strap × 2 |RecipeFinish=Finest Fabric × 1, Finest Silk × 2, Finest Leather × 2 |Price=72000 |CraftPercent=10 |RainBonus=10 |Generation=15 |Season=3 |Destiny=Merchant />

I'll give the info for Brace Knuckle here since you have yet to traslate it.

Name: Brace Knuckle

Rank: 3

Recipe per try: Iron Plate x 3, Iron Bar x 2, Finest leather strap x 2

Recipe Finish: Finest leather x 4, Large nails x 5

And also, wanna make a separate link for the mechant patterns and manuals once the list is complete?

Are you talking about splitting them off of the main table, but keeping them on the same page?

Yes. Or we could just make a table under the list of manuals

Sounds like a good idea. At least that way, they can be easily found. Still trying to figure out where and how to list them in the templates. I don't think list the destiny in the rank works very well. Perhaps with the manual's title.

MP3 list page?

Would it be ok to start a page that defines which MP3 files (in the Mabinogi folder) are used where?
Example:

File Name	Location Played
A_Safety_Zone	Dungeon Lobby
Abb_Neagh	Abb Neagh
arena_field	Alby Battle Arena Rabbie Battle Arena
NPC_Aeira	While talking to Aeira
.
.
.

Sori‎

There's already the OSTs page...

Akira‎

I looked up MP3 and music
Didn't catch that page...
Thank you

Sori‎

Help with a weapon page

I recently made a page for the future weapon Wild Troll Cudgel Can someone help and get a better thumbnail, as well as the description, as in the official description (perhaps dig through item files)? I translated it from my head.

Here's a Korean link for info: Wild Troll Club

Nevermind with thumbnails, thanks Kiyoura :D

Why not copy-pasta upgrade table?

d

Deletion‎

No problem.

Kiyoura‎

Ahahaha. Got bored and did it. whee

Deletion‎

Please do the same for Sea Troll Cudgel? Too lazy atm c:

So...many...TROLLITEMS Alrighty.

Deletion‎

Searching the originals of paintings

Can we search the originals of paintings in mabinogi? There is posting about this in korean mabinogi community site. I want to know the originals of parodies unidentified.... Too trivial?

Perdita (talk)‎

Might be a bit too trivial. I have known that some of the paintings were parodies of existing ones, but never did find names @@. I brought this up with Kad and the others. It sounds like something that should be on a user page since it's a bit too trivial.

Well I wouldn't mind it being linked somewhere, but the person who looked for it clearly covered every possible painting, including those outside of the Tara Rath Castle 2nd floor. I mean, sure we some trivia on Rath Royal Castle's page saying that (or something along the lines of) the painting found through the castle are parodies of existing paintings. But it was decided that it's a bit too trivial.

then, I'll leave link for someone who want to know that besides Munch's the scream.:) cafe.naver.com/mabinogidsg/127353

Perdita (talk)‎

Regarding front page

When to Archive this page for new slew of discussions..?

"World of Errin," "Equipment," and "Skills" is cluttered. More so "Skills" than anything else on the front page. Think we can have it take up a full width or something? Or any font page renewals if any :s...Every wiki (at some point) revamps the front page in some way/shape/form...sooo why not now, if not sometime in the next quarter? Not to mention how defunct DFO is now... I wouldn't mind seeing the images below being used again in the near future (other than now of course D:).

I've never been a fan of there being a giant sitemap on the front page. I don't think Kadalyn likes it easier. I honestly believe search is much easier to use than that navigation.

Saiyr (talk)‎

Well I actually use it since well...everything's right there.

Ditto with Lexis. I think Lexis should span multiple columns, but I don't think Equipment should. Rather, I don't see a point in the subbullets, and I think the weapons under "Ranged" should be made their own bullets instead of subbullets. World of Erinn I'm not sure on, but I think the front page icon should be changed asap to be honest, before the rest of this is resolved.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

We're planning to revamp and minimize the front page relatively soon. Feel free to dump your thoughts here.

Also yeah, we should switch that logo...hm~ maybe the middle one.

Kadalyn (talk)‎

Thank you.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

If you guys are planning to revamp the front page, then I recommend Starting with the General Information, its almost entirely full of "Miscellaneous" Sections. You should really use it for actual general information, like the categories lingering in the bottom half of the front page. Enchants, Production, Species, Pets and partners are all general information that should just redirect to their own category page.

The actual Miscellaneous section should become its own, things like Current bugs, OST information, and other Non in-game content.

Memoris (talk)‎

Basically everything you just mentioned is linked on the left menu navigation. Is there a reason to have those category links multiple times?

Saiyr (talk)‎

Yes, because the main page also tends to serve as a directory too and there is no reason not to leave important category links on the front page (Why cant we have useful links on both?). However we don't need the information on the category page cluttering up the front page. Why do you think the front page equipment section is awkward looking? The Misc. Items sub bullet isn't related to equipment at all. I also don't see why we need to list enchants F to rank A on the main page when the category page serves that exact purpose. Things like that.

Memoris (talk)‎

Your words seem to be agreeing with my stance, but your wording seems to imply disagreement.

Saiyr (talk)‎

Why not put all those lists in collapsible boxes so they are easy to get to but don't clutter things up when you don't need them? Just make the main category headings the titles of the boxes. Each box is closed by default, and opens when you click on it.

~Shadoe (talk)‎

I tried that...it looks very awkward...

Better than removing the lists,

Pyro - (Talk)‎

No it is not because:

It looks a bit cluttered and awkward for new people.
It's not a good replacement for minimization
Some people like to see everything available for ctrl+F on the front page.
It's just a bad way to hide things and is inconvenient for people :/

I don't see how it's more inconvenient than removing things from the page.

~Shadoe (talk)‎

Just because you use it doesn't mean it should be on the front page. I challenge you to find any site that has that much navigation linking on the front page. Unless you are a slow typer, search will almost always be faster and if you use Chrome (possibly others), you don't even have to visit the wiki to search. You just type in the wiki URL until it comes up on autocomplete, hit tab, then type your search term. The actual search box on the website does autocompletion on pages and so does the Chrome search, if you do what I described above. If you visit the site by bookmark, then you can always bookmark a new "Site Map" page or something like that. There is also a fair bit of redundancy between that blob and the left menu navigation.

That being said, even though I rather dislike the navigation, there is no mandate to remove it unless something better appears.

Saiyr (talk)‎

My main concern is skills and how bunched up it is. Everything else is okay as is. I just wish it was a bit more organized :s

I like the info on the front page of wiki...Mabi is a big game, at least for me as a newbie I didn't even know what to search for when I saw something cool...It's nice to have the list of map/generation/skills/production, I'm sure it's helpful for newbies to look up the info they want easier, without having to clicking through random pages to get to whatever list they're looking for.

Serendove (talk)‎

Serendove, I don't really find that to be a compelling argument. Even if you don't know what to search for, you likely do know what category your super cool thing falls under. You aren't going to look under the map section for a super cool looking skill. It's rarely going to be a truly random click sequence. By far the most used links on the front page are the missions, patch page, and events. Having so many deep links is information overload and I kind of doubt that many people are willing to filter through all of that.

Also, people who want to see change are free to mock their changes up like with any other big change.

Saiyr (talk)‎

I didn't say you look up skills under the map section, you look up skills under the skill section? which is included in my list of helpful tabs. Also nowhere on the wiki you get a complete list of all areas inside the game. Which I find is useful for newbies who want to look for new areas to explore. If you remove all those information, or at least make them harder to find, in my opinion it hinders the ability for new players to explore the game efficiently.

The game itself doesn't have a efficient guide to new players, which is why, at least to my understanding, this wiki exits. I'm not saying the front page is perfect, it could use reformatting, but I don't think it's a big improvement to remove the information there.

Serendove (talk)‎

I do agree the skills section is a bit excessive though, I wouldn't mind just keeping the categories.

Serendove (talk)‎

Categories would be fine for me. It would be better than seeing fighter skills then underneath it is puppetry...and so on. just a jumbled mess :x

My example was simply pointing out that one does not/should not have to "randomly click" through pages to find information. You should basically always know the category of what you're looking for, so category links should be enough. If the wiki doesn't have a list of all areas in the game, that's a shortcoming of the wiki and needs to be fixed, but I don't consider that a strong argument for verbose front page navigation.

The wiki isn't really a guide to the game either, it's more of an encyclopedia/reference. In my opinion, there are clear examples that run counter to being newbie-friendly because of verbosity. Enchants were mentioned elsewhere in this thread. If a player is new to the game, how is having all rank enchants on the navigation useful? To further my point, the top enchantment rank link from the home page in the past ~2 months is Rank A. That link was clicked 177 times. Of all of the link referrals outbound from the home page, that one was clicked 0.03% of the time. Multiply that by 14 to cover all ranks (an optimistic estimate) and it's still a whopping 0.5% of all link clicks. Statistically speaking, it's not useful. I can look at more stats later if you want, but trust me when I say the lion's share of links leaving from the home page are due to recency, not the comprehensive index on the front page. The main reason the navigation section is used is for skills that are recently released, as far as I can tell.

So I guess one idea is to start collapsing the navigation to categories where we see fit, and add a new category for "recent/relevant (to the latest release(s)) articles". I don't know what the right granularity of that would be, though.

Saiyr (talk)‎

Personally I prefer information accessable from the start. I wouldn't want to search into subsection areas (e.g. categories) to find what I need, because that would take some time to load and I don't like my time wasted (even if its just a flimsy second).

Yes, I do use the search function, but that doesn't mean everyone else will.

I didn't mention enchants but enchanting is not a very popular path for most people, so I understand why it has low click rate. But instead of comparing the amount of clicks to the total amount of clicks on the homepage, it should be compared to the total amount of clicks on the Rank A page during those 2 months, to give an idea of how many people in total actually visited that page in the first place.

That is beside my point though. I won't argue back and forth on this thread because you asked for my opinion and that was my opinion.

I will give one last example: I played in the Taiwan server when Iria came out, there was a wiki for it as well, but didn't have the info readily available on the first page. I went through a 2 months oblivious to the existence of the generation quests. I got bored very quickly and quit the game. I started after in the NA server and got into the Generation story lines and that's what kept me in the game. Looking back it would've helped me a lot if I had that info presented clearly in an index. I still see a lot of newbies leave the game because it get's too complicated and there's too much stuff to learn, they don't know whether a quest is just a quest or it's part of something else. Having the info readily available puts things into perspective, because how can you search for something when you don't even realize that it exists?

Whether if it's an intended function or not, this wiki is used by a lot of newbies as a guide, and I don't think that is a bad thing. Because after all this is a wiki for a game, and I hardly think the importance of it being encyclopedia worthy surpasses user friendliness... This wiki is more guide than encyclopedia from the way I see it anyways. For example, all skill pages have training tip sections. When you look up Carpentry in Encyclopedia Britannica does it give you tips on what type of axe to use and how to hold it?...You find that info in a Carpentry guide... All skills give comprehensive training data for each rank. When you look up Schools in Encyclopedia Britannica, does it give you all the classes it offers and all the credits you need to graduate etc?...You find that in a guide for students also... That's just two examples =/

Serendove (talk)‎

I don't mind arguing back and forth on opinion if it helps me understand other standpoints. I'm making an effort to try and convince people of my views because I don't want to put much effort into ideas that are unpopular. Though, I dislike having extended conversations on wiki threads.

Even though enchanting is not a popular skill line, using enchantments is not, so I don't really think that's the total explanation behind the low clicks (also, 15712 visits to the Rank A page in the same period which means 1.1% clicked from the front page). The argument I'm trying to make here is the same argument I will make in response to your last example. You make a strong case (in this particular case) for making users aware of the presence of generational content on the wiki. That makes total sense, and I'm not disagreeing with that. My question is, why does that mean that every single generation needs a link on the front page? If a user isn't aware of generation quests, it seems highly unlikely to me that the user will be looking to click into the G17 article. Instead, they will think, "what's generation quests?" and click on a link that talks about them as a whole (and also links to the individual generations). So what I'm saying is, the additional level of detail is not helping new users. The same argument can be applied for enchants. I am not arguing that the entire navigation should be discarded, I'm simply saying that I believe it is way too fine-grained.

Saiyr (talk)‎

Somewhat related:

We've been open for like...5 years now? can we change that image in the top left, if not at the least have it say "Mabinogi World Wiki" or something similar? I still have a couple we could use...let me dig them up.

Uhh disregard "North America" as people from EU use this wiki also more than their own EU wiki..not to mention that EU players play here sooo ya. Anyways one of them has more intense shading while the other doesn't. I can change the font or wording if necessary as well o-o

I don't remember if I ever gave feedback publicly, but I don't like the font or the shadow behind it. The style just seems rather old as far as web design goes. I don't like the colored eye much either since it's too much of an attention getter.

Saiyr (talk)‎

I have one with the Celtic Cross somewhere...I'ma dig it up and see if I ever did anything to it.

I love the one with the colored eye, Lexis! I vote for the one with the colored eye and Mabinogi World Wiki.

~~As long as its not related to the Cessair's Red Eye Magic >.>~~

Personally, I don't like the current coloration of any of them. I'd rather they be uncolored or completely colored (which includes not a brown outline). The font is okay I guess.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

I could make it a black outline, but the colors would stand out more (at least I think it would)...

Anyways I have a couple undone ones with the celtic cross that I never really expanded on. You can see in the link with this post.

Since people associate pictures to skills rather than text...

I want you guys to look at every other game wiki in existence.

This is the kind of minimization saiyr and I are talking about. Major categories are kept. A few categories (like Guides) will probably be added. But the minor direct links will be removed.

Some of you talk about there being an overload of information in mabi. Things like the main page present that fact. It is more likely to scare newbies than to help them. If I were a newbie staring at that information, I would have no idea where to start.

Infodude, if you want to save time so badly, realize that you're not a newbie player and probably have the majority of page names memorized so that you can go there directly. Newbies don't need to "save a few seconds" and certainly wouldn't be saving a few seconds because they would be spending minutes scrolling through that crap in the first place.

When I asked for opinions I didn't mean "beg me to keep it the way it is" or "argue the viability of statistically irrelevant links" I meant make suggestions on how to consolidate and what sort of major pages you would like to see in that section.

Kadalyn (talk)‎

I can't help but agree with this. When I first started to use the wiki I was quite lost with it.

Major pages I feel should be on the front page 100%: Generation disambiguation (or full list, whatever floats your boat) Talent list, skills list/disambiguation page

Rapthorne (talk)‎

Although I do think the newmenu is a bit excessive, I feel like those wikis are under-doing it. Can we shift this conversation to being about what we think deserves to be on the front page?
I'm going to section by section on what my personal thoughts are:

General Information
- I want to hear others opinions on this first.
World of Erinn
- I think we should keep the town and dungeon names, but remove the subbullets. (Such as Rath Royal Castle, Connous Underground Maze, Filia, Shyllien Nature Reserve, etc.)
- I think we should ADD Shadow Missions and Theatre Missions to the list under dungeons.
Equipment
- First Column
  - Remove Magical Accessory bullet.
  - Remove Designer Sets bullet.
- Second Column
  - Remove every bullet under upgrades besides artisan and special upgrades, and add gem upgrades inbetween the two.
- Third Column
  - Remove subbullets for Dream Catchers, Umbrellas, Arrows, Ballistas, Bolts, Javelins, Bullets, Puppets, and Rapiers.
  - Remove the primary bullet Ranged, and make all its subbullets regular bullets.
  - Remove bullets for Pillows and Ragdolls, they're just Blunts. . .
  - Move Marionettes and Missiles to the first column, like Shields is.
  - Add Instruments and Tools to this column.
- Fourth Column
  - Remove Instruments and Tools from this column.
Enchants
- Merge with the second column of equipment, since it'll be so short now.
Species
- First of all, move it to one of this sections, not the last. Choosing a player race is one of the most important thing for newcomers.
- The Monster subcategories seems unneeded to me.
- Bosses is fine.
- We might also be able to merge this with a different section.
Mainstream Quests*
- Remove the Chapter Bullets and make all of its subbullets regular bullets.
Skills
- Needs two columns, which should be easy since we eliminated the enchant column and can merge species with General Information.
Production
- Leave as is.
Pets and Partners
- Rename Pets, Minipets, and Partners.
- Remove bullets such as "Animal Humanoid", "Anthropods", etc.
- Leave collection, flying mounts, mounts, and list of pets.
- Remove Parnters and Minipets since they're already in the name.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

Please don't discuss it in terms of what's currently there. We will flat out be removing the majority of it, no argument.

You can discuss consolidation, for instance: "Add a category that lists all places in Erinn and link to that." Or specifically say what's on there that you want to keep. Keep in mind that nearly every "sub bullet" is going to be removed. If you want one of them kept, post what it is and a strong argument as to why.

The design will likely change significantly, so there's no need to discuss that. I frankly don't want anyone's opinion on that until after it happens, because it's impossible to incorporate public opinion into design. Also I seriously don't want arguments against this fact cause I know some of you will want to. If you're a seasoned web developer you're welcome to talk with us about design (preferably elsewhere), but I'm pretty sure no one in this thread so far is.

Kadalyn (talk)‎

I'm still messing aroudn with it.

I approve of this idea, why didn't I think of that. . . Though, the admins are probably going to remove the list of individual skills altogether.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

I'm trying to weed out what's important and what's not, talking to several hundred players in-game and that latter..no, it's not fun socializing to strangers...

I've asked some players (guild members and friends) for their opinions on your new template.

This is what one of my guild members said:

“	Having the skills as icons might make things confusing for newbies. I remember using the wiki to learn about skills when I first started, and since so much relies on people /mentioning/ names, you won't always know something just from how it looks. Especially as a newbie, you won't, for example, recognize Chain Cylinder just by its icon.	„

Many players, including myself, use the two sections removed for easier access to Lists, whether it is to the Enchant Ranks or Item Lists.
- Many of the players I spoke to are Life skilled players, and they liked how all the production lists were easy for access since they did not need to locate the skill to find the list hidden somewhere inside the Details/Info sections.

“	Having the Enchant Ranks displayed helps players with looking for bridging enchants quicker.	„

The armor/clothing upgrade list was more useful than all the weapon upgrades as each individual weapon has the upgrades already written below, but the armor/clothing upgrades are all the same.

Kiyoura (talk)‎

Still working out kinks and various things. Trying to either move it elsewhere or leave some note of it.

Something's been bothering me lately... There's only the transform skill for transformations, but why not the other skills associated with? I mean, Demigod has both the transform skill and all its other skills in the tab.

Hell should I know. I'm fixing what's there but I guess it can be added. I'll admit it does look strange :s

lol It looks strange with just the active skill...if you want everything to be there, then why bother defeating the purpose of minimization qq.

I'm not so convinced pictures are better than text. Can't search images, and it doesn't seem to me that new users will know pictures over text. I would like to hear your insight in talking to people, though.

Saiyr (talk)‎

So far everyone that uses the wiki searches almost everything directly to the source via search bar. This includes but not limited to:

Weapons
- Upgrades for said weapon
Enchants
Methods of production
Variety of equipment

So far, people find the front page rather useless except for daily info, on-going events, and server status. I'm guessing after that, everything just directs to the search bar for a more direct approach, rather than finding stuff on the front page. The item list is rather cluttered and shouldn't really be too elaborate. Like puppets and rapiers under sword and umbrellas under blunts. The skills box is said to be cluttered by about 160 of the some 400 users I asked. Some preferred skill icons while other prefer it be a large box rather than a cluttered mess.

Lexis, Kiyoura, in both of your cases, where these people taking into account hovering over the icon could show the name of the skills? I'd think that'd help newbies learn their names. I find that when I meet a new person, I don't remember their name, I remember their face. But if their name is said often enough while looking at their face, I begin to associate the name with the face. And when I learn a name and don't know a face, it's almost instant association, no need to spend time memorizing the face. (Keeping in mind that I am male.)

Pyro - (Talk)‎

From what I asked, yes. In fact, hovering over the skill icon shows up the name in a generic windows box. Even the link in the bottom left corner says where the image leads to. If you mean actual mouse overs like the skill icons on Skill templates, that could be done.

From a long-time player's perspective, using the icons would be easier, but for beginners it would be harder.

From a beginners perspective, NPCs tell you the skills by their names, not by their icons. Hovering over each icon to find the name of the skill is rather more work for navigation. You shouldn't have to hover over icons to find the correct item in a list. If hovering over icons was adding function, then that would be one thing, but it's not adding function in this case; it's purely for aesthetics.

Also, having a player look at the bottom right/left of their browser, to check if the link is correct, is more work than it needs to be.

Kiyoura (talk)‎

Which is why I suggested the skill icon template, because hovering over the icon says the name, rather than having to look at the destination link if your browser even has that feature. Perhaps we can make text-name toggleable somehow? There's no denying both sides of the argument are pretty useful.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

Large icons are cluttery, and defeats the purpose of minimization.

Having these gigantic lists at all defeats the purpose of minimization.

Kadalyn (talk)‎

Then what's the point of the front page at all? You expect people to click through 2 3 or 4 pages to find what they want?

Pyro - (Talk)‎

The front page is for introduction, appeal, and news; it's not supposed to be a sitemap. Think of it like a book: you have your front cover, then you have your table of contents -- not both in one.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

Then where would you have the table of contents? If we're not even going to have one.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

It's exactly as Kevin says. Like before, I linked all of those other wikis to give you an idea of what front pages should look like.

And again, you will not be clicking through 2-4 pages to get to where you want, because you know what to search for. Newbies will, however, need to click through a couple pages; but they'll quickly learn what to search for as well.

I expect to add more categories and nicer summary pages and other things with this to make it an easy switch. Hopefully such a change will give users more incentive to keep pages like the Enchanting Sequences page up to date, which would fix Kyoura's guildmates' dilemma.

Kadalyn (talk)‎

If I may stumble in to this conversation before stumbling out, the front page could be cleaned up by adding to the Categories listed under "Categories" on the sidebar, and there could be a link on the front page that leads to a "Table of Contents" page which would allow people to select categories and go from there.

Peace.

/stumbles out

And it's not that hard to make a "Sitemap" page and link to it under the "Navigation" pane on the lefthand sidebar.

Angevon (Talk)‎

Actually, is there nay way we can make hovering over a category on the sidemap bring up more specific subsections like in some other wikis? Either way, I don't think the Newmenu should be lost. Be it in the sidebar, a Sitemap page, or still on the front page.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

We have something like that in the works I guess. Even then, I wouldn't want the thing to be super cluttered. Most wikis do not have a dropdown of all the skills in the game.

Kadalyn (talk)‎

SkillIcon template is resizable (not that I care for the front page at all).

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

Okay that I did not know....time to do more messing around

Show more replies

Maybe a small change to the intro blurb?

I saw on the front page in the introduction at the top it mentions, If you would like to help out, please see Wiki Tips for New Editors. Use the discussion tab on this page to propose new projects or changes or to ask for formatting help.

But then I finally noticed along the top of the discussion page it says, This discussion page is now only for discussing the front page and its contents.

I'd be willing to make the update myself, but it needs special permission. Could someone able possibly update the front page to avoid confusion?

Pipfield (talk)‎

Ah, thanks!

Kadalyn (talk)‎

Figured it out

I noticed the Dowra SE repair costs ingame were half of what's listed in the wiki. Is there a way to correct it? I tried taking a look, but it looks like it's done through templates and I don't want to mess with the coding going on there. Was using an old pair of Dowras and overlooked the Engineer enchant's -50% to repairs. Nothing to see here, just another person learning to read :)

Pipfield (talk)‎

Category:User Guides...good idea or bad?

Topic. Discuss.

Do you mean like a category for things like the wiki guide for dummies?

Yinato (talk)‎

Sorta. see here or look down a bit.

Do we have any categories for user pages?

Not that I noticed nor recall.

The premise is that there should be a place with a complied list of guides made by users, whether it be introductory guides to something such as a few on my user page, or things like how to do a specific thing like finales, such as the one on Swissed's page. I probably should have elaborated a bit but ehh...laptop was dying =-=;

While the category itself may be helpful, are there enough pre-existing pages to warrant it though? Then there's the issue of consistency and quality of the user guides (as a whole) that are part of that category; you don't want to include a craptastic guide with one that's actually well-written.

Yinato (talk)‎

That is true. I'm sure some ground rules would be placed and someone is going to have to review them, which I don't mind doing.

I think it would be difficult to set and maintain the standards of quality that would guide such reviews, especially in the cases where the potential reviewers aren't exactly familiar with the subject being written about.

What kind of things would you expect of a quality article? Would it be okay to just focus on presentation over content when unfamiliar with it? Would it be fair to judge it both ways?

Part of me doesn't want to slow down the process with red tape. I'd really like people to write more guides and I think feeling like they're able to do so freely would facilitate that.

Kadalyn (talk)‎

Well, mainly I'm looking at grammar and stuff. Nothing too big o-o. as long as proper English is there, there isn't really much to look over other than the presentation quality.

I guess if it's that alone that would probably be okay to do. I just hope it doesn't get backed up.

Kadalyn (talk)‎

The issue of "I'm right, you're wrong" would then come up, along with formal vs informal, 1st vs 2nd vs 3rd person, etc. There could also be multiple guides for the same subject (i.e. g9 final, where one person suggests a hit-and-run tactic while another person suggests grabbing a friend with r1 spear of light and brionac, and just have them nuke claim solas to bypass its hp thresholds), who's to say one's more correct/valid than the other? Hell, two guides can thoroughly contradict each other while still being perfectly valid @_@

Yinato (talk)‎

I would think the best approach would be to to assume the player reading the guide is either:

Clueless and want to find something on the subject
Stuck and existing information does not help them
Looking into something much deeper for a better understanding

I see what you are trying to say, but it never hurts to have multiple options covering the same subject, provided it is within the means and intends to educate the reader, rather than flat out lie and use a bad outdated strategy. It also depends on the reader. If a guide disinterests them, then they are free to look at other guides covering the same subject.

My concern with this is, will all guides on the same subject share a page? Or will they be subpages to each persons' user page? If it's all on one page, we could separate them by header/editor, but then some may get outdated if the editor stops contributing to the wiki and other are not allowed to edit others content so we would have to first think of a basic rule set for etiquette.

Kapra - (Talk)‎

No. I'd rather have it kept in separate pages and yes, they will have to be subpage(s) of the user just as a way to know who wrote it and such. Fortunately, I am fine with anyone editing and correcting my mistakes, provided there was a given reason and I approve of it. I'll leave it up to the user if they want people editing their page(s) or not.

Of course, the title will have to be straight forward in order to make finding the guide much easier. I mean "Finale Guide" could mean anything unless someone puts like "G1 Finale" or something like that. Same thing with stuff like guides to skill sets. The name of the guide will have to be something simple and short, but still reflect the guide's content.

Lexis covered the rest of your concerns, but on the topic of being outdated, we may need to add an exception to the current rules of userspaces to allow others to deprecate out of date guides. Perhaps that should be reserved only for staff, and others would have to report it to them? I'm not sure such a measure is necessary, though. I trust the greater amount of you to not be trolls about the system.

Kadalyn (talk)‎

PS: This is going to be implemented in some form regardless, so please use this topic for discussing the manner that it is, rather than dissenting. Guides are also going to exclusively be in the userspace, as they are opinion based. I'll accept no argument on those matters.

Feel free, however, to discuss concerns, ideas, or what have you.

Kadalyn (talk)‎

Personally I think informative pages like The Story So Far... should be included in the category as well. How does Category:User Guides sound?

Actually it's going to be super simplified and will eventually replace Mabinogi Storyline Recap. However, I bit off more than I could chew and it, unfortunately, evolved into something massive and requires much replaying, which I don't mind. The problem is my attention span and lack of updating it.

As far as "completed" story lines, my story page can be used as a means to totally rewrite the appropriate sections in the recap page, as I have paraphrased every, single, possible detail.

What about Vindictus then?

Mabinogi ≠ Vindictus, regardless of the amount of similarities that exist. plus this is a Mabinogi wiki, not a Vindictus one.

D: You're making me feel like I wrote that up for nothing qq

Aside from that, I guess that's true...

I look at it sometimes :c. Just saying that that The wiki should focus more so on Mabinogi than stuff pointed out in Vindictus that connects to Mabinogi.

No. I want a category for guides specifically. Other things can do whatever (eg. have their own category, I don't care), but I don't want people having to flithel through a bunch of gunk just to get to the important parts. That's actually highly against the direction I want to take with the wiki.

Kadalyn (talk)‎

So I was in the hospital for the past two weeks, so like yeah. Anyway I pointed out some things here[1]. Kinda like party pooping and parade raining. I can say I've had a lot of experience firsthand with this sorta stuff though.

Swissed ✰ Toast (talk)‎

Condensing Category pages and re-drafting others as Lists.

The StyleEquip template currently lists "Enchant Availability" to reflect the categories an equipment is a part of, and I feel it may generate some confusion. Let's look at Guard Cylinders as an example.

Both Guard Cylinder and Rebis GC are part of the Categories: Magic Armor, Shield, Guard Cylinder, Steel. This causes their equipment page to display, next to Enchant Types, "/ Magic Armor / Shield / Guard Cylinder / Steel /". Nowhere here is there a distinction of Cylinder, which may create the false perception that GCs can't get regular Cylinder enchants, like Synergy (but they can!)

In addition, Magic Armor and Guard Cylinder aren't (to my knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong) Enchant Types at the moment. The Category:Guard_Cylinder page could easily be merged into Category:Cylinder page, with any redirects forwarding the user to a dedicated section for Guard Cylinders, and Category:Magic_Armor would probably be better as a list (because, again, it doesn't correspond to an enchant type, and it isn't used for more than a reference for any users looking for equipment that confer M.Def/M.Pro bonuses).

TL;DR - Merge/redraft as List/otherwise edit any Categories so that they accurately correspond with Enchant Types.

Just checking for a go-ahead from a superuser, or any feedback or recommendations against the idea from other wiki editors.

Euphie (talk)‎

For your example: So you're saying make Guard Cylinder a sub category of Cylinders...that right?

Also most of the data comes from the xml files and what not, which makes data input much simpler for the wiki's automated template generation.

I guess while the topic's here, there is only 1 ES that works with Instruments for Rank 9 Suffix (as far as I'm concerned), and that is Cherished enchant. Raven didn't work despite having the "Weapons" tag (on in the case of my Lyre, One-Handed Weapon). Oh well...only took me 1 run for the enchant but not like I'll ever farm it again.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)‎

I put it in its own category because certain idiots would eventually bitch about it.

If there is a consensus or someone else wishes to do it, they can be moved (or added) to Cylinders.

Ikkisuki (talk)‎

Much like how: Ranged Attack ≠ Throwing attack ≠ Combat ≠ Anything that that pings range? Totally.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)‎

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge of how the equip and weapon templates work nowdays, but can't we just edit tags like Guard Cylinder, Magic Armor, and other non-enchant related tags to not show up and make Guard Cylinder trigger the Cylinder tag? I don't really see a need for a category merge assuming it doesn't autodetect categories, rather it looks at the xml string of an item's itemdb entry.

Kapra - (Talk)‎

Yeah, maybe I'm just misinformed, I know that it doesn't automatically copy over every Category for many skill equips. As an example, many items are part of categories "Reforgeable equipment," "Blacksmithed equipment," etc., but they do not show up on Enchant Type tab.

So I guess the question is if it's possible to A) remove inaccurate enchant types (see: earlier example; Magic Armour, Guard Cylinder) and B) add in ones that an equipment isn't necessarily categorized as. For example, Guard Cyl showing Cylinder without actually merging it.

Euphie (talk)‎

Okay, it should now say Shield and Cylinder enchant tags on that section, and it is still in the Guard Cylinder category. I also removed the Magic Armor enchant tag but didn't touch categorization so all magic armor and guard cylinders are still under that category. I am not sure how remove guard cylinders from the magic armor category (without touching actual magic armor) due to limited knowledge.

Kapra - (Talk)‎

Nice fix! I think it may be worth keeping them a part of the Magic Armor category for now, as they do meet the requirement of being an equipment that adds M.Pro/M.Def, if any improvement is to be made it'll be just converting this page into a List page.

Euphie (talk)‎

Converting which page into a list?

Kapra - (Talk)‎

Only Category:Magic_Armor, it's a superfluous thing though, really.

Euphie (talk)‎

I'm just going to put this here, since it's vaguely relevant. Anyone have experience with Semantic MediaWiki? Were they good or bad experiences? I think in theory it could benefit the wiki quite a bit. One way would be getting rid of manually updated list pages. Another way is being able to search for pages by properties.

Saiyr (talk)‎

Manually Updated List Pages?

What is this heaven?

https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/User:Kadalyn

In the form of inline queries!

Saiyr (talk)‎

How about a Glyph making overhaul?

I was researching Glyphs on wiki and noticed that there isn't any "Glyph List" much less Glyphs listed by catagory. The other thing troubling me about the glyphs is that there isn't any glyphs in the game that are centered around "Life" talents or "Production" talents. ie: Gathering Speed, Smithing Perfection, Cooking Top Grades and so on. If we are to have a true fantasy life experience shouldn't these types of glyphs be created in the game?

Smelly76 (talk)‎

Smelly76 (talk)‎

if you're looking for a list, don't you just mean the one on the actual glyph page...?

https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Glyph#Possible_Glyph_Effects

Other than that, if you got concerns and suggestions about the game's contents, you should address them at nexon, not the wiki.

Ivy (talk)‎

What I was suggesting is that there isn't any life skills glyphs. Every glyph in the game is combat or music related. There isn't any for the following talents in the game. (Tailoring, Blacksmithing, Cooking, Weaving, Refining, Metallurgy, Gathering) and so on. Should there be at least a list of these talents and a simple statement saying "Not Available for Glyph Stat Boosts at this time"????

Smelly76 (talk)‎

New Enchant Scroll

Found an Enchant Scroll called "Eagle" from Peaca Normal and its an r6. It gives -9% repair cost and is only for Magical Clothing. I checked for it on the r6 enchant page but could not find it, so im just letting u guys know.

Nexus (talk)‎

Oh and I forgot to add that it's a suffix.

Nexus (talk)‎

You can't find it with the r6 enchants because it's here with the r4 enchants.

Maxwell (talk)‎

Beginner Quests for Elves in Connous

I have updated all relevant information. I believe that elves no longer receive the boss quests. I have saved all the previous data anyway just in case I get some. I have been running all the quests on my mule so I should have all of the information correct.

User:Beauxbatons (talk)‎

By the way, we shouldn't be removing quests no longer obtainable, since people who still have them can still do them. Instead, they should be moved to an archived page.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

Pages on Individual Quests

This page exists when the same quest is already described here. Should the individual quest page be deleted for redundancy or should every quest have its own page?

Formula‎

I vote against only having it on one page, but I do not think that it should have it's own page, more likely being on the same page with similar quests.

Pyro - (Talk)‎

I will just move all the boss quests over there since that is the only removal as of now.

Beauxbatons (talk)‎

Guild&FL

First off, It seems that friends list is fixing, it's not gray anymore, but friends are NOT showing, second the guild chat is working like it was, but it is more laggy.

Menka‎

...Try relogging.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

The 'non-gray' part is a part something going on with the interface, like eventually the grayness disappears if incapacitated too long or the lengthly cutscenes. It's not fixed.

I did relog, but a hour ish later, it did the same thing.

Menka‎

Ah Jeez, they didn't fix it through last night's maintenance!? Damnit!

Nope...right now my window isn't faded and it doesn't do anything. You can set a status or add a friend, but other than that...nothing.

The guild list also shows up as blank, but if your not in a guild, don't worry about it.

LexisMikaya‎

That just happens when you stay online and on the same channel for too long. :l

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

Didn't I just say that?

You're welcome.

͟͞ҡ͟͞ε͟͞ѵ͟͞ו͟͞͞η _{[͟͞т͟͞α͟͞ι͟͞κ]}‎

I've CC'd several times and it's stuck like that for me. even logging in just now, it's stuck like that.

LexisMikaya‎

Just sit tight and wait people, NEXON'S working their asses off trying to fix this, but at least you can still play the game. Stop bitching and just let them fix it. Eventually stuff like this happens to every game, and NEXON just seems to be cursed with stuff like this. In such, it might have been another hacker attack, or people botting and modding (I've known that to crash a game before) or just something like a misplaced suffix in the game code, it's hard to know right now. Eventually they'll get it fixed.

If you're so concerned with not being able to talk to people use Skype on Ventrilo. That's what me and my friend have been doing, and it's really more efficient.

Nadindel‎

You really dont pay attention much do you.

Aubog007‎

@Nadindel, I have several problems with that.... Just sit tight and wait people, NEXON'S working their asses off trying to fix this

Uh, no, they aren't really trying to fix it. Housing's been broken for months, FL and guild chat for about 5 weeks. If they really wanted to fix it, they'd have called DevCAT, Other Nexon Teams, and whoever else they needed to, and they would have fixed it right then. Nexon doesn't give a rat's ass about the game, as long as they're making money. I still hold that the only reason it got "fixed" is that Nexon's net profit tanked.

at least you can still play the game.

Social Interaction is a very big part of Mabi. The game is not meant to be played solo. Also, the game is falling apart at the seams, in case you didn't notice.

Eventually stuff like this happens to every game

No, it doesn't. Some companies actually use test servers to stop issues like this. Or they fix the problems right away. They don't languish around like Congress.

NEXON just seems to be cursed with stuff like this.

Gee, I wonder why? If you think they're "cursed" with it, you need to have your head examined. They aren't cursed. The just don't give a flying *** enough to take simple preventive measures.

In such, it might have been another hacker attack, or people botting and modding (I've known that to crash a game before)

Seriously? Someone would hack the chat server. WTF would that gain them? "Oh gee, I can see people's messages!" Big news, you can too by pressing L! Modding and botting would only crash the game servers. To have a mod or bot crash the chat server, everyone would need to be a spambot, and everyone's pets would have to talk at the same time. Again, there's no motive to do this. Even IF the chat server crashed, all they would have to do is restart it, and it'd be fixed. Contrary to what you may think, it does not take 5 weeks and 3 failed maintenances to restart a server.

misplaced suffix in the game code. So what, Nexon slipped in an update when we weren't looking? The client didn't change when the server went down. If they "updated" the chat server, A)They would have taken Mabi down for Maint, as you can't upgrade a server in use.

B) They would have immediately rolled back the server.

C) They would have been on the phone to devCAT right away.

Eventually they'll get it fixed

When? When there's three players left?

Skype on Ventrilo.

That's just stupid. We shouldn't have to use other programs to replace a standard game function. Besides, not everyone has a Skype or Vent.

Stop bitching and just let them fix it.

Language. This is the internet. We'll do whatever we want. If you don't like it, reach behind your computer and unplug the network cable. It's better for everyone.

Now you're just being one of those people that wants everything to be perfect. I've seen the crash logs, I've been having those happen to me for over a year, I've also seen all the maintenance they've done recently, they ARE trying to fix it. And when I say hacker, not someone trying to hack the social system, it could be a side effect of a hacker attack.

Nadindel‎

And you're being one of the idiots who'll pay Nexon to keep up this crappy service. Don't bulls--- me. Nexon could replace all game content with a single, unpolished turd, and they'd still rake in money from people like you who would defend their actions. They'd be perfectly happy doing that, too, because they don't care about user experience. They just want to make money.

Take WoW or RS or any other MMO where people pay money to play the game. Do servers ccrash randomly? Do they copy/paste and unimplimented quests, which royally f---s everyone over, and then not fix it?

By my count, it's been 7 weeks since that bug. They still have not fixed it. The only reason most people are able to play is because I fixed the game for a friend and shared the fix. It took me an hour. Nexon's done nothing in 7 weeks. I weon't even go into housing. Don't sit there and spout lies. The fact that they lack simple preventive measures and testing is a good indicator of just how much they care.

All the maintenaces they've done recently have only proven that Nexon fails more than anyone dared to think before. If any other game team did that, they'd be fired before you could say "oops!". Nexon shouldn't need to run back to mommy and daddy in Korea for every fix. When they need help, they should ask for it then, not 3 weeks later. What they're doing is almost criminally stupid, and you, in all honesty, don't look too good by defending them.

You also don't seem to understand that the CHAT server and the GAME server are completely unrelated. One doesn't affect the other. In order for someone to damage the chat server by hacking, they'd have to deliberaly target the chat server. However, the chat server isn't responsible for anything hack-worthy. All hack attemps would be directed at the game server. Since, logically, the two are seperate, it's not possible for the hack to "splash over" and accidentally wipe out the chat server.

Do I want everything to be perfect? Yes. We all do. Do I expect it to be perfect? Of course not. There are occasional bumps. Things happen. Nexon, however, seems to have tripped and rolled right down a mountain and off of a cliff. Pretty soon they'll hit bottem, and the game will be scrapped. I love the game, or I'd have jumped ship long ago. Instead, I content myself with not buying NX. If they make no profit, perhaps they'll try harder to fix things. If not, the game will still flop, and look at all the money I saved.

They keep the game free, the only funding they get is from people buying NX. Do that a bit more, and maybe they could be like WoW.

Nadindel‎

You still don't understand, so I'll bold it: Nexon doesn't care about the game, they only want money. If we bought "a bit more", would the game get better? No, some Nexon Manager would just fatten his pocket. Use your head.

If you don't believe me, think back to a year ago, when Mabi had loads of players. People bought loads of NX. Nexon still behaved like they do now, and have always done. They still screwed up majorly. People buying NX changes nothing, besides the size of a CEO bonus. If you want to help him buy that 4th ferrari, go right ahead. I prefer to give my money to companies that care.

Hey, this is not the place to argue about Nexon.

End thread.

Angevon (Talk)‎

So does anyone know if the friends list and guild chat is ever going to be fixed? Twice now Nexon has said it's fixed and twice they were wrong. I'm kind of getting tired of not being able to talk to anyone and it doesn't seem like nexon is doing anything to fix this issue.

n/a‎

Third time's the charm perhaps?

I wish. I really do

n/a‎

It was working on Mari last night. Haven't checked today.