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User talk:Saiyr

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My script

Hey, have you finished looking at my script? I'd like to approach IJ about getting it hosted on the wiki, and it'd be great if you could say you've read it, and can't find any malicious stuff, ect. He'd still want to look over it, but perhaps be more receptive Xcelled194 17:44, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

I looked at it a bit, but not in a great amount of detail. I think what you have is okay, but not ideal. I think it would be better if a cron job did the server pinging and updated a database and the script just read from it. It means load time will always be fast for the wiki and it won't be writing to the file system. I don't consider writing to the file system like you do to be a good idea if it can be avoided. Saiyr 21:34, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
For what it's worth, your "ideal" configuration is almost exactly like the script:
  • Cron jobs
    • Not really needed in this case. The script loads faster than the wiki main page when reading from the cache, and even when it's not, it still returns in ~3 seconds, plenty fast. Also note that iframes/ajax are asynchronous, meaning the wiki will never be waiting for the script before it finishes loading.
    • Cron jobs might actually slow the wiki down. Whereas now, the script runs on demand, a cron would have it constantly running.
    • However, setting up a cron job would be very easy. I'd just modify the script to cache it in an html file, then set the iframe to load that. The cron job would just run my script.
    • This is more a question for ij
  • Write to a database
    • A database is just a fancy file, so either way, you're writing to the filesystem
    • You'd have to query the database every time. This would massively up the server's CPU. You should hear Marck at MM b----- about their queries. It is much faster and easier on everyone to use a local file
    • Ij would have to set up a database for the script, and he would have to do a lot in terms of setup/maint..
    • The script's portability would be removed. Right now, any webserver with php could run my script off the shelf, no issues. A database would complicate that. (Think future server upgrades)

That's just my two cents on the issues you pointed out. I suppose another option is to always have the script echo the cache, and then update the cache if needed. Thus, preceived load times are instantaneous.Xcelled194 04:07, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

A cron job that ran every minute would not slow down anything, especially if, as you say, the load time is 3 seconds. The delayed load time when the file cache expires is pretty obvious even if it's still relatively fast. I'm well aware that a database is a "fancy file," but the web server process should not be writing to the file system or have write permissions if it can be at all avoided. A database would not massively up the server's CPU usage. A simple SELECT query is a drop in the pond compared to the queries Mediawiki will generate for everything. Portability isn't really relevant to me. Setting up a DB shouldn't be a big deal, and IJ should not have to touch that DB after it was setup. The cron writing an HTML file would solve the issue too, but it's not the most secure option either. Saiyr 04:24, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

I'd be more than willing to set the script up for a cron job (it pretty much is already), however, that's IJs domain , and is up to him in the end. As for the database, it seems to me like a violation of KISS, it's just one more (unnecessary) thing to go wrong. Plus, using a database, I'd have to rewrite the script (again), execution times would be longer due to the script querying every time, and IJ's workload for implementing goes from copy/paste a few files to setting up/configuring another database. As for the 'security' concerns, I don't think they're really a problem because:
    • I specify the name of the file in a string literal, meaning it'd be impossible for someone to change the save location.
    • I preform a lot of sensitization on user input.
    • For the most part, the script calculates its own values, minimizing the use of user impact.
    • The user input section is on the wiki, and is restricted to registered users with more than 10 edits, Joe Blow can't come in and wreak havoc.
    • Because of the wiki, any hacking attempts are recorded in the history for posterity.
So, in my mind, as long as IJ keeps PHP up to date (which he'll have to do anyway, for mediawiki), if someone manages to get around all of the above, IJ has bigger issues that need to be addresses, and a database won't help any. It seems to me like a lot of extra work for very little (if any) gain to use a database. Xcelled194 14:21, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

This argument is going in circles. If you feel it is ready to send to IJ then send it. Just know that security concerns go well beyond your script once it has write permissions. Saiyr 15:41, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Gosh, I hope I didn't come across too strong. I welcome your input (and, in fact, want it). I'm giving my views on the issues you raised, but that's just my view. I'm not trying to pprovoke/bash you, I'm kind of thinking out loud, and giving my objections/thoughts. You've hardly told me any of yours, for example, why is a database better/more secure? Who knows, I might beswayed Xcelled194 18:35, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
A database would be better because the server status is stored in a structured format that is easy to validate. If the script cannot write to a web-readable file, there is less chance for an attacker to use whatever user the script runs under to write malicious code. This is a little less relevant after talking to IJ, due to the setup of the wiki, but I still wouldn't be okay with it if I were him. Like I said, just e-mail it to him and see. In the end my opinion doesn't matter. Saiyr 18:43, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Actually, your opinion DOES matter. It matters a lot. You're an admin here, and your stance will likely impact IJs stance. In addition, this is peer review of my script, a time when I'm examining it for flaws and seeing what can be done better. (Some, like the database, I remain unconvinced of the benifits to that, but I'll see what IJ says). So, what would you say if I implemented a very strict filter, only allowing the values listed on the config page (ie. online, maint, 1, ect) and simply filtered the rest out. Since PHP auto-escapes quotes in strings, an attacker couldn't "bypass" the filter. The only side effects here are additional processing (probably not an issue) and if we ever need to add a new status, we'd have to modify the script, whereas before, we'd just drop the new image file in the script's directory and it'd work. I'm thinking it'd be a good thing to do. OH, and I'm tweaking the script slightly to be an instantaneous response always, as well as making it cron-friendly. Xcelled194 20:11, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm actually only a wiki admin here to take care of something that I keep putting off (implementing timers on the wiki). I am normally only an IRC admin. I have already explained my opinion to IJ and he doesn't seem to think it's a big deal (though I haven't gotten a definitive answer in either direction). You don't necessarily need to whitelist the user input if you feel it's too strict, but I'd say only allowing alphanumeric statuses might be a good idea. I don't know if you do that already. Saiyr 20:14, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
I do a similar thing, courtesy of PHPs internal sanitation methods, however, a Regex that filters on alphanumerics is a good idea.... [implements] Xcelled194 20:29, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Here's the result of my regex-matching. Given the input of hi=3&foo=bar&nope=', the script filters it down to this: hi=3&foo=bar Xcelled194 21:26, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, why are you putting ampersands in the wiki template and parsing it as a query string? Saiyr 22:06, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
The ampersands allow me to use PHP's built in function called parse_str(). I first have it parse the query into an array, which I sanitize. Once its sanitized, I re-call parse_str() with no argument. This actually creates the variables in the script's scope, meaning I can use them without going through the hassle of parsing them myself. Also, using an & makes it very easy to separate statuses in code.Xcelled194 22:17, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Parsing it without the ampersands wouldn't be that much harder in my opinion, but it's up to you. It just looks strange when you edit the file and see them there "for no reason." Saiyr 22:21, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

(Going to un-indent this again) I could use some other symbol, but in addition to the ampersand being what PHP uses natively, if we removed the ampersands, and someone accidentally put in two end of lines, then you'd wind up with funky results (I tried that at first[Also, due to system line ending differences, do you match at \r, \n, or \r\n? Everyone's different...]). This way, people are very unlikely to stick an ampersand where it doesn't belong. Xcelled194 22:29, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think newline type matters in most cases, but it isn't difficult to handle in any case. You don't need any symbol besides a newline, and it also isn't really difficult to handle double spacing. If you think ending everything with ampersands instead of newlines will make sense to everyone that edits it, then leave it as is. All I'm saying is you should consider the editors, not the simplicity of the script. Saiyr 22:37, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
The newline type matters a lot. On Mac, its \r. On Linux, its \n. And windows, not to be left out, does \r\n. The script can only match one. So my point is, no matter which ending you choose, you're leaving someone out. You could correct this by normalizing all the line endings, but if you're not careful, you'll actually end up with MORE line endings and/or an infinite loop. Eventually, you'd just have to change them all back to ampersands anyway. Lol. Plus, what if someone forgets about a line ending? They'd break that status, as well as the one below... If it becomes an issue, I'll look at fixing it, but so far, people have been doing OK with it. All they (really) need to know is that every status is separated by an ampersand.
This whole newline thing is just a mess, as I discovered when I attempted to use it originally. Xcelled194 22:49, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Did you try preg_split with the PREG_SPLIT_NO_EMPTY flag? Saiyr 23:01, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
No, I'll have a look at that... Xcelled194 23:03, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

preg_split (or replace) would work, however I feel that if the ampersands aren't causing trouble, they're probably beneficial because they make parsing easier, they tip off editors that this is no longer the manual edit page and they need to use different conventions. I'll keep it in mind if people start complaining, but for now, I'll probably just leave it as it is. Xcelled194 14:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Just conceived of a (imo) great security addition to the script. Since parse_str() replaces any variable, it's possible for someone to change a critical variable accidentally. Therefore, follow me, we call strtolower() on the configuration string. Any variables we do not want changed we simply start with a capital letter. :D Xcelled194 00:54, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

A better security feature would to use the second argument of parse_str and read the variables you need into the global scope. Your idea is simply security by obscurity. Saiyr 18:38, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Partially, but I actually do use the second parameter:

parse_str($Config, $Vid); $Config = ""; foreach ($Vid as $Key => $Value) { //Here, we do your idea of alphanumeric args, which we then store back in Config } $Config = strtolower(rtrim($Config, '&')); parse_str($Config);

I could set up a global array, but that opens up its own can of worms (plus makes the script harder to maintain, and I'd have to parse at least two array levels every time I want to do something), so it seems to me like this is an effective compromise? Xcelled194 00:54, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
I don't see how it becomes harder to maintain, but that's not relevant. Simply make sure the final key is something you definitely want before putting it back into Config. Saiyr 23:06, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
It makes it harder in the event we need to add something, plus it's confusing if you have like Input["alexina"][0] or more. Xcelled194 00:54, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Just a note, not sure if I'm conveying what I want to here. I'm saying, by forcing the configuration string to all lowercase, we can prevent people from overwriting things we don't want. This works because the non-overriable variables have at least one uppercase letter, which, due to PHP's case-sensitivity, makes them impossible to change from the all lowercase user input... It's not security though obscurity at all. We're hiding nothing. I could post the source code, and the lowercase security measure would still work perfectly. This security is, in effect, placing a wall between the important vars, and the status vars. Let me know if I'm still not making sense. Xcelled194 00:54, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I understand quite well what you were saying and I am telling you it is not a good idea. It is a very silly way to improve security and only works if anyone who modifies it remembers to follow this convention. Saiyr 02:08, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
I fail to see how it's silly. It does a great job of limiting what a user has access to within the script. Combined with the other sanitization, it seems to me that the script is pretty secure. Yeah, if this was the only thing, I'd be uncomfortable with it. Xcelled194 02:14, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Then do what you wish. Saiyr 02:17, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
>_> I'm trying to understand why you think it's a bad security measure D:
If you didn't understand what i said before: Your idea requires anyone who would modify your script to use this non-standard convention of capitalizing variables so it doesn't get overridden. This naming convention is not enforced in anyway and someone who was unaware of this may decide to use lower case variable names like most people do and suddenly it can be overridden. If you understand this and disagree, I have nothing left to say. Saiyr 02:37, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

What if we changed it to uppercase? I have a big NOTE of documentation at the beginning of the script also. You're right that if someone is careless enough to disregard the warning, it would open the script up to attack, but I think we have three things going in our favor: 1) The attacker would still need to see the source code, or be very, very lucky. 2) The script should need to be edited very rarely, if ever. 3) If someone is enough of an idiot to not read the documentation, chances are IJ would never let them near the source.

Also, I think we should take a step back, and look at the overall picture. This isn't some high visibility company that's fending off hackers everywhere, nor is it obvious how the script works. The worst the wiki has is a few bots and vandals. Basic santization and policing should be enough to ward off any bad eggs and script kiddies. If we get a real hacker, IJ's going to have a lot bigger problems than the script (Not that the script wouldn't be a target, just that s/he could probably find 1,001 other ways into the server). My point is, at some point, we need to acknowledge that there's a point where additional security is not needed, and it ceases to become beneficial (violates KISS). I'm starting to wonder if we're not already at that point. What do you think? Xcelled194 02:52, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

We are never going to see eye-to-eye on programming. I do not think that the usage frequency of a script determines how secure or sloppy a program should be, nor do I think the alternatives to your idea violate KISS. Simply do what you think is best and let IJ look at it. I am no longer interested in discussing any aspect of this script. Saiyr 03:11, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Never said "sloppy". It's a matter of how far do we go. Do we spend time protecting against something that is very, very unlikely? So far, IJ hasn't responded to my thread or email. I'll go to IRC next. Thanks for your input though. Btw, I credited you for your idea of filtering non alpha-numeric values, as well as a general reviewer. Xcelled194 03:17, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Just FYI, another program I made

I left the post on Angevon's Talk. Xcelled194 01:55, 5 October 2011 (UTC)


Thread titleRepliesLast modified
Shadow Mission Daily calendar613:02, 15 March 2015
I noticed a little something409:27, 19 September 2014
Special Cache723:26, 21 February 2014
New Upgrade Issues200:44, 15 February 2014
I figured you're the server admin so...906:02, 7 February 2014
DFO-World Wiki Database920:34, 7 September 2013
Ahem2301:25, 24 August 2013
specifics for server maintenances requested615:33, 10 June 2013

Shadow Mission Daily calendar

So, I didn't see any mention over the past few days in the recent changes, but today the SM calendar did not agree with the actual VIP missions (Provocation and Their Method were today's VIP). The normal dailies were still correct though.

Shroom Fonzerelli (talk)16:46, 1 November 2014

Today as well it's wrong. Tara VIP: Fomor Attack

Sakura502 (talk)10:12, 2 November 2014

This seems to be on the supplier's side of things that sometimes the VIPs are off. I guess I'll have to contact him.

Kadalyn (talk)00:29, 5 December 2014

Issue still seems to be occurring; today's predicted VIP - Shadow Cast City, actual VIP - Sulfur Spider

Domirade [Tarlach] (talk)08:45, 9 March 2015

I know, sorry, he wasn't able to fix it. I will be switching over to kukulu when I get the time to finish the code.

Kadalyn (talk)17:31, 11 March 2015

Don't apologise... Most people would be perfectly satisfied that the regular daily missions are accurate. At least, I haven't witnessed any inaccuracies on non-VIP dailies.

Solutions come with time.

Domirade [Tarlach] (talk)17:58, 11 March 2015

This is fixed now, it pulls from kukulu. It actually pulls from both (server-side) but doesn't present that information.

This information is accessible publicly if people want to use it, you can access it like or

However this is done by caching the information (since kukulu only makes theirs available for the current day), so you'll only have access to today (Mar. 15th, 2015) up to the current day (well, the day after as well after 3:30 PM PST).

Kadalyn (talk)13:02, 15 March 2015

I noticed a little something

I think about few hours ago as I write this, the template was working great.

Right now, I'm looking at it, and the missions show up as "Loading". I don't know if it's just me, but if it's for everyone else, could be something to work on.

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) (talk)14:12, 18 September 2014

It does still work for me, but that doesn't mean you aren't alone. If it is something as simple as refreshing the page or browser window then maybe there should be a note. If it's accessing another site then there could be connectivity issues for many people.

Shroom Fonzerelli (talk)15:31, 18 September 2014

Is it still doing this? I'll have to add some error thing in place of the loading I guess, unless you know how to use a web inspector.

Saiyr (talk)17:00, 18 September 2014

Yup, still loading. And I'm writing this from a different computer this time.

Edit: Nevermind, just as I went back after writing this, it's good now LOL

ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) (talk)09:04, 19 September 2014

Next time this happens, let me know if it's stuck in "Loading" or "Loading..." (big difference, I know). My theory right now is the page load is getting stuck elsewhere and the script isn't running. That or there's an actual error that aborts the script, because even if the server returns a failure, it should update.

Saiyr (talk)09:27, 19 September 2014

Special Cache

Either it has to do with my cache, but the last time the special cache in Special:UnusedFiles hasn't been updated since June. many of those images have been deleted/removed but still show up there.

まそっぷ ! (talk)12:27, 1 October 2013

It's a server-side issue. I don't know why I had to set anything up to fix it, but it should update once a week now, and I just updated it manually. Nevermind, I found the setting. It's a wonder it was updated so recently. I disabled the cache so it should stay up to date.

Saiyr (talk)12:49, 1 October 2013

I knew it was server-sided. Thanks for fixing it. I've been wanting to clean it out (mark for deletion) a while now, but due to the cache, I saw things that were clearly being used, but it still showed up in that page :x

まそっぷ ! (talk)21:55, 1 October 2013

Special:UnusedFiles is doing something weird. Files are supposedly unused but are clearly linked already. Examples includes Ranger Set Females and Succubus Set items, which I have recently moved. Maybe I have to clear mine, but thought I'd check in with you first.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)23:05, 21 February 2014

Double post

Nise Panda (talk)23:08, 21 February 2014

When you sometimes upload images, it doesn't get removed from the 'NeedPicture' category and yeah, editing the page the images are used for seems to fix it.

Nise Panda (talk)23:08, 21 February 2014

That pretty much fixed it...that is strange. :s

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)23:12, 21 February 2014

Possibly something related to the move? I ran the manual update script, let me know if you still see errors.

Saiyr (talk)23:26, 21 February 2014

New Upgrade Issues

Newly uploaded images after the maintence results in this weird string:

Error creating thumbnail: /bin/bash: /usr/bin/convert: No such file or directory

Seems to first appeared at Lunar Dragon Helmet (F) and then for its Male variant. It also happened just now with the Lunar Dragon Armor (M). Pull up on of the views of any of the images for the File page and you'll see it.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)00:14, 15 February 2014

Should be fixed.

Saiyr (talk)00:20, 15 February 2014

Thanks for the fix. I'll keep an eye out for anything else quirky/odd.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)00:44, 15 February 2014

I figured you're the server admin so...

What's up with the random morning maintenance? I don't mind but sometimes I forget I left an update in a notepad until...well...I look at my notepad's recent lists (which isn't often). So I figured I ask when are the times of these maintenance and how often do they occur. I think it's database maintenance or something.

まそっぷ ! (talk)11:24, 11 July 2013

The early morning maintenance is automated backups, they happen every Thursday around 3am Pacific.

Saiyr (talk)13:52, 11 July 2013

Every Thursday eh? all righty then.

まそっぷ ! (talk)14:11, 11 July 2013
Edited by 2 users.
Last edit: 02:33, 16 November 2013

Recently been coming across large loading times and 502 (Bad Gateway) Errors as of late. I'm guessing it's due to the large amounts of oncoming traffic due to the Merlin update and people visiting the wiki, but I (and probably a few) have been experiencing the aforementioned errors.

To add to this, random 504 (Gateway Timeout) errors from time to time...

ベリサ・マイルスター (talk)23:50, 15 November 2013

I made a couple of tweaks. Let me know if you still see 502 errors. I'll try to work on the loading times later.

Saiyr (talk)15:32, 19 November 2013

Other than the one just now, nothing much.

ベリサ・マイルスター (talk)17:51, 19 November 2013

Hopefully that won't happen again. Had to make another tweak that should fix that.

Saiyr (talk)18:10, 19 November 2013

Fixed. Upgrading to a new PHP version breaks lots of things, wee.

Saiyr (talk)22:35, 19 November 2013

Talk/Discussions Pages are acting funny. Didn't notice until now. Wiki update I'm safely assuming?

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)06:02, 7 February 2014

DFO-World Wiki Database

Hi there!

I'm in the process of creating a wiki for the Chinese version of Dungeon & Fighter, and I was wondering if it is possible to get a backup of DFO-World so that I don't have to start from scratch?

I have read the CC license of which DFO-World is licensed under, and I agree to the listed terms.

Thanks in advance!

Soulrez (talk)08:32, 15 August 2013

Hello, yeah I'll see I can do. I don't want to give a full backup with people's passwords in it, so I'll have to figure out what to do about that.

Saiyr (talk)10:00, 21 August 2013

Oh right, I forgot about that.

But thank you so much!

Soulrez (talk)10:49, 22 August 2013

I think I have something that should work. Please leave an e-mail or way to contact you off the wiki and also I'd like to know what domain you'll be hosting this on.

Saiyr (talk)11:14, 22 August 2013

Hi! My replies keep getting rejected because they're "identified as harmful." It won't let me post a link to the domain, but here's my email Thanks!

Soulrez (talk)15:20, 23 August 2013

Hello! Do you have any updates about the database? Thanks.

Soulrez (talk)20:18, 31 August 2013

Sent you an e-mail a few days ago. Did you not receive it?

Saiyr (talk)22:45, 31 August 2013

Hmm, weird, I did not. Must be something wrong with our server's MX entries.

Do you think you could send it to me again to

Thanks in advance.

Soulrez (talk)09:28, 7 September 2013


Saiyr (talk)12:51, 7 September 2013

Sent a reply :D

Soulrez (talk)20:34, 7 September 2013

Hey boss, can I PM you something on the forums please?

Infodude575 (talk)21:21, 23 August 2013

This is gonna go south quick...I just know it.

Oh yeah Saiyr, I've been experiencing some weird things with the time adjustments you did (if any...) Everything shows up 1 hour ahead. I'll check my settings.

It was my settings. everything's fine now ~*

まそっぷ ! (talk)21:23, 23 August 2013

I'm getting tired of, you know. I didn't want to do this, but my hand has been forced.

Infodude575 (talk)21:27, 23 August 2013

I'm guessing whatever he tried to get Angevon to do didn't work~


I have no idea what is happening on this thread, but you don't need permission to PM me

Saiyr (talk)21:44, 23 August 2013

I'm just going to say it. Kevin's being awfully more immature for the past few weeks. See his user page for examples.

Infodude575 (talk)21:48, 23 August 2013

When you're ruining the wiki, you get what you deserve~


Like how you deserved your demotion?

Explain to me how I'm "ruining the wiki".

Infodude575 (talk)21:52, 23 August 2013

That was a low low blow, even for you...anyways that's a different reason. As of late though the edits seem to have been rather...well not constructive. I mean don't get me wrong, you drive a hard argument but's things like...well a couple things pointed out in kev's page. I'm not taking sides. I mean even kev's made some unconstructive edits (Am I even using the right word...?) but at least they sorta fixed thing to were they make sense...

まそっぷ ! (talk)22:00, 23 August 2013

That doesn't mean he gets to go Millia mode and insult and harass me on every turn. Is it that hard to make a peaceful resolution?

Infodude575 (talk)22:03, 23 August 2013

Indeed it is...that is why we can't have nice things/world peace/pieces

I try not to get involved in such matters but considering I feel I'm to blame with my uhh...not quite sure it's casual anymore but yeah. I feel partly to blame.

まそっぷ ! (talk)22:07, 23 August 2013

Tarlach: Its those fucking Gods! They're making us all fight one another!

Kevin, that doesn't mean you become immature, defile my name, and badmouth me.

Mikaya you're not involved, this is a personal matter between me and Kevin, so don't blame yourself. Like I said, I didn't want this to come to boss's attention nor did I want to argue on his page; I'm sorry, but this has gone far enough.

Infodude575 (talk)22:12, 23 August 2013

Neh...I feel like that feather that breaks the balance. you know?

まそっぷ ! (talk)22:14, 23 August 2013
this is a personal matter between me and Kevin


-brings Saiyr and Angevon into this-
Yes, very personal.

Where am I defiling your name? My userpage is just your take on the wiki. Everything on there is just a reflection of what you've said. If anyone's defiling your name, it's yourself.


Yes, like how I deserved my demotion (except, not exactly because that was for an entirely different reason, not ruining the wiki). You seem to love bringing that up.

Explain to me how I'm "ruining the wiki".


Look at every revision you've made that I've "commented" on.


I've seen more revision wars between the two of you more than anything else...that's kinda sad considering those reversions outdo image reversion wars...seriously.

まそっぷ ! (talk)22:04, 23 August 2013

Jesus. Firstly, saiyr's job is administration of the server and software, he doesn't need to nor does he want to deal with social drama. Angevon and I are here for that, so please come to us. Secondly, you never need to request permission to PM an admin, or email those of us that offer the button on the forum.

Lastly, I can feel Ikkisuki's tension here but from what I've seen so far he hasn't been necessarily dickish about it. It only seems to degrade into dickishness in the linked when you both become sarcastic and unbearable. If I were to ban either of you (temporarily) based on that thread, it would be both of you.

I'm glad you made a thread to discuss it, but in the future, Infodude, do so earlier. Don't simply revert a removal like that because you should know that it's going to be removed, again. That is the point when you should make the thread to discuss the issue with the person. If necessary please contact an admin (namely Angevon) to make an absolute ruling on the matter. Preferably, it can be solved by the users on the page's discussion section, though.

Ikkisuki, it's something I've had to talk to you about before and I'll do it again, but do try to curse at people less and be more respectful. To me, it seems a tolerable level, generally, but if it's going to be constant or drive people off I will have to ban you for it.

Infodude, many of your contributions are in fact silly and unwarranted if not outright misinformed. I will require you to take heed of criticism or you may face a ban as well. I also recommend that you study the nature of arguments and burden of proof. There are others on the wiki that I would recommend that to, as well. The reason that many of these threads escalate into hurting your feelings is often because of your own hardheadedness irritating others enough that they come to use stronger words and more aggressive tactics in an effort to get their point across. That's likely not always the case, but it happens enough that it's worth mentioning.

Ikkisuki's user page doesn't seem to be bashing you in particular, but in more of the form of making a political statement. That's more or less okay to do, as immature as it is. If he was still admin, I'd force him to remove it, but at current status I'll allow it. I would highly recommend attempting to understand what he's trying to convey, rather than dismissing it outright, since he obviously had enough frustration behind it to take the time to make such a complex statement. Of course, I'm not telling you to agree with it.

Ikkisuki, similarly, you need to learn when too much is too much. Some people can take the heat and some can't. It's okay to not be able to, it's certainly no disability like many netizens seem to think. You've been handling the majority of this thread in a civil way, and I thank you for that at least. And coming from me, you at least, should know that means something. Nonetheless, in the linked thread and several memos I've found floating around, you could stand to lose the aggressive air a bit, even if you don't feel he deserves your respect.

Lastly, this is final. I expect you both to uphold the doctrines of this treatise or I will ban you. No arguments, either. If anyone sees them bickering please report it to me or Angevon. I will inform her of this ruling, as well.

Kadalyn (talk)23:10, 23 August 2013
do try to curse at people less and be more respectful


I do not curse that often! I would, though, if it gets the point across more clearly.

As for respect, I respect everyone on the wiki; they offer their time and effort to improve it. One can lose that respect, though.

Might as well ban me now, cause we all know this isn't the last time this is going to happen.

How very "honest effort" of you. :| Hopefully people are capable of earning that respect back, as well.

Anyway, you're welcome to not like people. You're welcome to print out their names and throw darts at it. However even if you don't respect them on the inside, I still expect an effort for peaceful interaction.

Kadalyn (talk)23:31, 23 August 2013

Noooooo, don't TRY to push yourself into getting banned. You are the one of the few voices of reason around here!

DANTE20XX (talk)00:45, 24 August 2013

Don't take sides, Dante. It just encourages them.

Oneris (talk)01:25, 24 August 2013

Sorry, I'm not sure who are the active admins here or their general duties. I already talked to Angevon, she only responded that she acknowledge my PM, but went silent after that.

Infodude575 (talk)23:14, 23 August 2013

Angevon is the head of the wiki and basically the sole overseer, saiyr is the sysadmin for wiki/forums, Majikaru is IRC head, and I'm MabiWorld overlord (mwahaha?) and head forum overseer. Technically Khenta has say over me, but I act in his absence.

It probably should be better spelled out somewhere, though.

Kadalyn (talk)23:19, 23 August 2013

specifics for server maintenances requested

if youre going to put a notice at the top of all of the pages about server maintenances... please at least state that theyre wiki maintenances or show a source as to why

Legiathan (talk)18:49, 8 June 2013

Sorry, I will try to remember to specifically say "wiki" in the future. For what it's worth, I will never put up stuff about actual Mabinogi servers at the top of the wiki.

Saiyr (talk)19:21, 8 June 2013

other people have put that info up there before though, such as when the blackrobing was happening

Legiathan (talk)18:14, 9 June 2013

Yes, I understand that. It's not difficult to tell who puts it up though. So if you see that I do it, it's not related to anything in-game.

Saiyr (talk)19:42, 9 June 2013

where do i click to see who edits that header part?

Legiathan (talk)11:51, 10 June 2013

Just look in recent changes or checkout MediaWiki:Sitenotice.

Saiyr (talk)11:51, 10 June 2013

see, that link isnt anywhere i would think to look, hence why i asked here

Legiathan (talk)15:33, 10 June 2013