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|Thread title||Replies||Last modified|
|Quick Skill Cancel||6||08:45, 23 February 2016|
|Vs Dual Gun||9||00:44, 26 September 2013|
|Still capped?||1||17:32, 21 October 2012|
|2x Training||0||12:34, 1 July 2012|
|Dodgable Special skills||7||11:46, 27 June 2012|
|G14 broke alchemy evasion||4||15:31, 26 June 2012|
|Destiny?||11||08:34, 11 July 2011|
This is one of my favorite skills in the game, but there really isn't as much info around as i'd like there to be. Here's one question:
Does cancelling the skill before a second or (reforged) 3-5 rolls add or subtract i-frame time? If i cancel towards the end of rolling, i can quick load windmill or something. If i don't cancel too late, i have to wait the entire animation before loading another skill or continuing to roll. What's going on with this? and why?
Does MOVEMENT SPEED effect this skill in anyway? I am inclined to believe it does but currently lack easy tools to measure that correctly.
For your second question, you can just test in demigod mode since that increases move speed. You can try by starting in the same location (easiest way being to enter or exit an area since that puts you in the exact same spot every time) and doing a series of a rolls and seeing if the same amount of rolls with demigod on leaves you in the same spot.
Confirmed. Movement speed does not increase the action speed or ability to early cancel. - THis doesn't change the fact that giants and players with bigger hit boxes (transform, older age) , etc, will roll further. But that's already noted i believe.
- Still would like info about the i-frame or the "calculation" rather of cancelling vs standing
Movement speed most likely would not affect skill duration or positioning.
Movement speed only affects walking/running and charge. It scales how fast you move through intermediate points to get to your destination.
Skills that move you in a special way, such as shooting rush, do not actually move you through all the intermediate points. Instead, they teleport you directly to the ending point and instruct the client to play the skill animation. The client then "shows" you "moving" to that point, but as far as the game is concerned, you teleport when you execute the skill. (This is why shooting rush has that note about magic shields on its page.) Additionally, the skill locks your client until the animation has completed, giving you the illusion of the skill moving you. I strongly believe (based on anecdotal evidence) that this is how evasion works. Regardless, skill duration and positioning is based on animations.
Animations are based on positioning various game objects (like your arms) in certain ways. An animation is a set of "frames". Each frame tells the client how to position things visually. There are multiple frames per second, and the client plays them sequentially to the end. An animation always takes the same amount of time to complete unless it's interrupted in the middle of execution. This is why neither size nor movement speed affect evasion's duration/cancelability. It's also why you can't pick things up that you appear to move over.
There is a single animation file that's used for every size object. However, a 10 year old would look ridiculous using the smash animation for a 17 year old, as the positions would be totally off and your character would literally appear to "explode" to 17-year-old size when you smashed, only to "implode" once the skill was done. To avoid this, animations' positioning information is scaled by the size of whatever they're operating on, in this case, your character. This is why larger characters roll father.
I am not sure if the game takes your character size into account when teleporting you, and this would be non-trivial to find out.
In summary, here's how evade works:
- You trigger Evade
- The game teleports you some distance forward
- The client plays the animation of you rolling towards that point, scaled to fit your size. This includes everything from ducking down to rolling to standing up
- The client locks input until the skill expires.
- The client unlocks you when the animation finishes, ie, you've stood up
In cases where you're hit mid-roll, the skill immediately cancels, the rolling animation is aborted, and you "jerk" into the hit animation. No idea if the game readjust your position or not.
For bonus points: Walking and running animation durations are adjusted based on movement speed, which is why your legs move faster. This is a special case designed to avoid visual... unpleasantness.
I learned a lot from your reply. But.. please correct me if mistaken.. I have no doubt i'm able to manually slam my space bar (skill cancel button) as evasion is ending to gain freedom faster. I was asking about information for that as well. The skill bubble and slow rise part of the animation is completely negated if cancelled right after the tumble- and i was curious if the slow standup was vulnerable or not... or whether it was up to player choice to gain freedom or extend their evasion time.
Based on what you just said, im under the impression that self-cancelling the skill mid-roll shouldn't make a difference. But it definitely has been. I've tested this extensively with roll->windmill and roll->roll->roll->roll (i had some fun with the reforge) .. So that would mean it's all in my head or skill cancelling has a weird quirk to it? I definitely didnt mean interrupted by another skill when i mentioned it earlier. That was my mistake for not being more specific
Unfortunately I have no specific information for you on your questions as I haven't looked into evade specifically. I can provide you with some generalities though:
- Skills can often be cancelled midway through, but the skill has to be configured to allow this
- Skills are usually bracketed on either end by "uncancellable" periods
- The server needs to approve your request to cancel a skill. This can introduce significant delays depending on lag
- It's possible that the server refuses your cancellation request, either because it takes too long to process and the skill finishes in the meantime, or because it's configured that way
- This is testable, but not without certain tools that probably shouldn't be talked about here. Again, testing is non-trivial
- Vulnerability is up to the server and is very hard to prove either way, especially with such a short time period
- It is quite possible that your character is locked during the stand-up period whereas an early cancellation would not lock you. I believe Bash is another skill that follows this pattern. (If you interrupt bash with a normal attack just after dealing damage, you can avoid the end-of-hit delay and bash much faster)
Is this something you yourself are unable to test? If not, why not test it rather than needlessly bumping this single topic?
Testing it on NPCs is not an easy task. Players on the other hand don't really offer me duels and even if they do they'll either say "no guns" or pin me down and kill me with Frenzy.
Have you tried the Cessair o-o? They use Evasion shortly after being struck by a ranged attack/skill.
- So automatically, it's easier for others to test it on NPCs?
- So automatically, the same generic group of people allow someone else they don't know to test on them?
- You don't have any friends that would allow you to test on them?
- You don't have any friends that you wouldn't allow them to test on you?
- You can't nicely ask someone to assist you?
- There's literally no single person on Mabinogi that would assist you?
- You can't multiclient?
- You can't get another computer?
- -insert the inverse of any other excuse you could come up for not doing this-
@Mikaya Hoping their stun immunity doesn't kill me, I'll try next time.
@Kevin How about you try to test it then?
Under normal circumstances, they would use Evasion 3 times in a row before proceeding to kill you.
I'm very curious about what else the evade skills work on besides ranged,magic,and alchemy. Things I'll try to test for evading will probably be:
- Glas Gibby's laser attack
- Rain of Thunder
Can't think of any others at the moment. In all likelihood they probably won't be evadable,but I'll attempt to evade anyway. Or die tryin!
Its very specific about what you can evade. I've evaded windmill with it oddly...
Really? You have evaded WM? as in while evading someone used windmill really close to you and you were unharmed? that'd be crazy if so. I doubt it though,perhaps you just used evade to get out of the attack range
The person used wm when I was next to them right when I used Evasion (by chance) and hit nothing.
Have you ever been able to recreate this occurrence? Or only that one time?
Just the one time. Supposedly similar things have happened to other people.
I once WM'd someone as they were using trans and it canceled. Guess WM is just a wild horse of a skill at times.
As of G14,i believe alchemy attacks cannot be evaded anymore. If other people could test and confirm I would appreciate it.
Yeah, I've had a really hard time getting around Alchemy. Evasion wouldn't bypass it.
... DAMNIT NEXON! YOU MADE ALCHEMY OVERPOWERED AGAIN!!
Alchemy can still be dodged, whether PvP or PvE. Maybe just bad luck/timing?
They actually fixed it a while back...I think it was "a while back"
First and foremost - is Evasion a "ranged" skill, and is therefore affected by an Archer destiny? And secondly, am I supposed to be able to obtain it, nevermind rank it, without going through the quest? AKAAkira 07:08, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
1) Don't think so. 2) You get rN when you obtain the quest. You can't rank it until you finish said quest.
I have an elf with the Archer Destiny and she somehow already has the Evasion skill that's completely trained to Rank B or A without me having used it once. Oh also support shot was somehow learned but I haven't ranked it, but I suspect it will have complete training for several ranks as well. I haven't played in a long while so I don't know what update it may be from (Probably Romeo Juliet).
Yup, that's exactly what happened to me. Evasion full training, plus magnum full training until C, plus ranged full training, plus support shot full training, plus maybe others. This happened to me after I leveled my elf sixteen levels at once by finishing a quest.
I'm assuming that our Archer Destiny characters are also below 100 total am I correct xD?
Probably to help new players get their skills and whatever.
My thought exactly. Though it's almost unfair how my total-fifties elf can do as much damage on a regular hit as my total-near-two-hundred human.
Well I guess if you didn't choose the Archer Destiny in the beginning, you'll have to talk with Glewyas. But maybe they don't want the new players to have to rank their Combat Mastery so they just give them evasion off the bat.