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Trivia Dilemma
As far as I can tell, they just help the admins delete and move stuff because most of them don't bother with the wiki content.
There's really only 2 admins and us moderators carry out the will of the admins. Of course there's also judgement calls and we handle them to the best of our ability. I don't make the rules, I just follow them and heck, I still feel like a regular user...only with special privileges lol...
I think that the words of a moderator is just as absolute as an admin's, at least that's how I view it.
I don't think anyone's word should be absolute, and that we should all try to be on the same page with what's going on. We all in this together.
@Mikaya Cobsidering we've been most likely chosen for being active editors that doesn't screw up as much. Feeling like normal editors with special delete privileges isn't surprising.
@Meru Depends on where the word comes from. If its already in the policies, than no matter how you think of it, it's absolute. If it's something we've come to a conclusion a while ago, then it becomes absolute as well.
Policy and conclusions can change you know, they have many times recently even, too. I still wouldn't consider it truly absolute.
Image policy is pretty much absolute.
Have we even recently drastically changed the policy? I know we changed the wording, but that's nothing new.
There's some things missing from the policy if anything I'd say. We skimp on image policy sometimes. I'd use the policy as a guideline to quality if the wiki wasn't so stiff on it. Black and white could be preferable on some items for bringing out details that get muddled in the images we have. The topic is almost completely derailed in this chat branch.
When do we skimp on Image policies . - .? I mean I don't always check the recently uploaded images to see whether they're taken or not, but when I see mistakes I ask people to retake em.
You can literally go down the clothing lists and see several clothes that need better pictures, and I did check to see if those parts were dyeable. Even if it's not black and white, the color schemes chosen hide details and make it hard to tell different dyeable parts apart much worse than black or white would, such as http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Luxurious_Crystal_Dress_%28Female%29. I've seen black dyed ones that show the details quite nicely. Even then, there are still several black and white pictures, if that matters. Black/white and picture quality shouldn't be the only thing to look for in bad photos. (The hover over to see the clothes worn is a nice feature and helped me zoom thru this, when it works that is, thanks admins). I also believe we shouldn't use little characters for pictures either. People also don't seem to replace the item icons when they redo their photos either.
Then throw a or on it. You can't expect us to stalk the recent uploads like hawks. And you can't expect most of us to replace them, because we couldn't even if we wanted to.
And personally, I rather not remove the Black/White policy or make any exceptions to it(unless the item is forever black and or white) because it seems like that would cause conflict and make people wonder when or when is it not okay. And I find find your argument for the lux dress moot, because it can be applied the same with any dark color. You see plenty of details on the previous image: http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/images/archive/9/9c/20120522192041%21Luxurious_Crystal_Dress_%28Female%29_Equipped_Front.png
And if you think image policy should be updated, why are you even asking here? .-.
Two years ago is hardly a recent upload. I don't expect you or any of the wiki contributors to replace them, besides the one who uploaded the picture. You asked where we skimped on policy, and I gave you one out of many. I hardly doubt removing the black/white policy would cause any confusion as long as we say don't have colors mess with details. My point is hardly moot when I wasn't saying it had to be black. I was just stating an example of when black should be okay. I'm asking here because you started talking about policy being absolute and me disagreeing and you wanted me to give examples. I can replace most of these images, but I'd prefer not to unless this is sorted out because a lot of them don't even need to be replaced, but according to policy, they have to be replaced. Also, I don't know what throwing an or on it means, and as far as I can tell, the wiki contributors DO stalk the recent uploads like hawks (mostly, it's you who bothers asking them to redo their photos, and I can respect your hard work on the matter).
Then it's not even us that skimp out on the policy. It just happens because the editors don't pay 100% attention to it. But policy is still policy and everyone who knows it should follow it.
Your point is moot because you can do the same thing with darker non-black colors or lighter non-white colors.
I stalk recent uploads, when I can. I don't do it constantly. I'll miss certain images because I can't see them all. You'll see me warn players, but you can't expect me to check every single image in the wiki.
I don't like exceptions because then it'll give people more and more reasons to use it. 8I And that only gets more and more annoying.
Just because we can do the same thing with darker non black or lighter non whites doesn't mean we should have to. There is no reason at all that black and white should be completely forbidden, and if you can do the same thing with other darker or lighter colors, then why not let people have black or white when it's the exact same thing? It just creates problems where there are none. Your point about my point being moot is moot because you aren't seeing what I'm saying. You do warn people, and they upload new pictures, but the icon picture still stays rule breaking, and for some reason that's fine.
So if you don't like it, go make a thread to change it. Also still because I don't like exceptions to rules, because this only gives more and more opportunities for people to abuse it.
I don't even know why Icon pictures are suddenly mentioned. But okay.
Icon pictures were mentioned because, even though they contain white or black, you yourself have made an exception and have allowed them for some reason. http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Butterfly_Suit I even went and looked at the uploader's user page. You were there posting, but you said nothing about the white being a problem, or the problem with the color scheme not showing well the different dyeable parts. I was looking at the butterfly dress icon when I went to the uploaders user page, but butterfly suit was the topic, and I found it to be an even better example. The wiki policy says item images shouldn't have black or white. Are equipment item icon images not item images? I also don't see where you're getting me wanting exceptions, and even if there were exceptions, there would still be no more opportunities for people to "abuse" it than there are now, regardless, people already don't read the wiki policy when uploading their images. Let's just end this sub sub sub sub topic here, and I'll make a topic someday when I feel like talking about this again. I'm not trying to be mean or rude or anything, so I'm apologizing if I come off like that. Not upset at you either. Even though I bring terrible topics up, I don't really like all the conflict in them. I'm definitely not the arguing type. /wall of text
At the time I didn't even know that much about the dyeable parts of the outfit. Which is why I didn't question it. I left it there and forgot about it. Derp. There are plenty of perma white and black items, which is why I didn't question it. That and I haven't seen a single other Butterfly Suit.
And I say again. I'm not a hawk and I'm definitely not an elephant.
There would be problems, by allowing them exceptions to use black and white. People would use it wherever as 'exceptions' and knowing what kind of people are out there, this will happen.
and no offense, but I call BS on the non-arguing type.
I do get fired up in arguments, but I'm not a good arguer is what I mean, maybe saiyr remembers from years ago when I brought up problems on the irc a lot, in fact, I think I talked about this problem there too, but no one said anything to it. I wasn't active on mabi or here in April, but I'll try to help you out. I'm just a questioning person, I guess. The thing is black and white aren't the only problem colors. Any color could be a problem to have in some outfit, and don't forget about overall color scheme making it hard to tell dyeable parts. If you aren't sure if that part is dyeable you can ask. I do have a problem with white in that case there.
That "super zoom" crap. Just saying.
I swear that it was also mentioned somewhere that they don't want the head partially cropped out as well.
The head being cut out was never a policy. It's more of a personal preference, heads in mabi never change sizes, so you have a better visual of the equip or something.