Chapter 5

The whole point of this thread is that it shouldn't be called C5 (or G18 for that matter) just because it was obtained with a pickaxe. By the same logic, Shamala and Nightamre are an entirely different chapter than the Saga.

I agree that it should still be called C4(at least until we get more information). However it's definitely G18, that wasn't obtained with a pickaxe; it was confirmed with a pickaxe, but we already knew without it.

Assuming we didn't yet get it from a pickaxe, and we JUST confirmed it with a pickaxe later, how do we know so? We just assumed it would be G18 instead of G17S4. What's in question here seems to be the legitimacy of mining.

We know because major updates are new generations. Big update = next number unless Nexon specifies otherwise(clearly states a different number that makes sense).

Also, saga has it's own quest tab, another very clear sign that it's at the very least a new gen.

The legitimacy of mining isn't in question. If it was, half the info on every skill and item page would be gone.

With that logic, Field Boss Raids have their own quest tab, so they're G19.

So, we're just assuming it's G18 and basing confirmation on data mining of things that aren't visible ingame? At least things like splash radius are visible within game, just not in the same form.
My point is, just because it's mined, doesn't mean it's accurate. Have you seen how many things they misnamed? Even compared to the KR official english name.

Raids don't have a long story or a long series of quests in a specific order, same thing for event tab.

The assumption is that, until the distributor changes the labeling style, part 18 comes after part 17. And we would never have gotten numbers that precise for splash without mining; monster hitbox sizes vary, you can't be certain the monsters are exactly where you think they are with this game's lag, and we don't have many people on the NA server who are actually willing to do all that work to test these things.

When something that was mined seems to be wrong, it's usually because the miner copied the wrong value(like when there was an edit war AR summary chart cause some people were looking at stam needed instead of stam used). There may be some things in the files that don't match the server, but generation number is not one of them. Devcat picked that label, and nexon has no reason to mess with it. It's not flavor text that might be reworded to sound better in English, and it's not a number that effects combat that could need to be nerfed. It's the version label, and it's not going to change from g18 to g15s11.2 for no reason, and even if it did, we should assume it didn't unil they say so, cause we have no reason to believe the gen # is anything but 18.

Sorry, but I think we're starting to confuse "Generation Updates" and "Generation Quests".

The mainstream quests released in the g2 update were called g2 mainstream, g3 was g3, etc. how is 18=18 such a stretch?

Because the number 18 doesn't appear anywhere in anything pertaining to Generations or updates at all anywhere in Mabinogi. Even g4-6 were specifically referred to as such even if only to tell us that there is no G4-6.

That's just it, there shouldn't have to be a stretch at all. It should either be explicitly stated or not. And in this case it is not so it shouldn't be. I'm usually overly conservative but I just feel this is right, there isn't evidence of the Saga being called G18. For all we know, each episode of the saga could be a separate generation quest chain and the saga could be G18-27, if that makes sense.

This isn't something like the Iria update where they threw in 3 gens worth of updates in one, there is no ambiguity about what number this G is at all. If you don't want info that's not explicitly mentioned by Nexon, why not just stop using the wiki and rely on Nexon's vague Engrish press releases for all our information?

Nexon KR said everything up to zero is still gens, so if we're using the generation labels at all, this needs one too. Even if we hadn't looked up what Devcat calls it, we'd know what it was because 18 makes the most sense. The story update is too big to be a season, individual updates are too short to assume they're all gens. Sure, they could change their minds and decide to call it g18-27, but until they say they did, we have to assume that whatever makes the most sense is correct.

Your last sentence can also be used to counter-argue, I just don't see why there is evidence it is or isn't G18.

How? Which number makes more sense after 17 than 18? pi? e? negative google?

NX KR said this is still a numbered G. Updates of this size with this much new story are, by default, new Gs, and the previous one was 17. Even if we ignore the very specific, straightforward label in the file, there is enough evidence it's g18, and no evidence it's not.

You still haven't really provided any evidence that the STORYLINE (not update) is G18, that's all I want.

This piece of the story is released during G18, and is clearly a mainstream quest chain. That's more than enough until there's an official announcement saying it's not g18.

actually...its supposed to be a tv show, just ask lorna

That doesn't change the fact that it's a large quest chain continuing the mainstream story.

thats assuming that it IS continuing the mainstream story....

Ruari is in it.

Ruairi can't take up acting?

Former wanna-be paladin suddenly becomes an actor? unlikely.

ive seen a former actor become a president, why not let a former bad guy become an actor?

-_-...really? Okay, IIRC, actors in Mabi are animated pieces of paper. Was he a cardboard cutout when he appeared in saga? Before episode 1, was there a cutscene of Ruari in the beauty shop waiting room, being lectured by Manus on the risks involved in an operation to downgrade to 2D?

Damn it. I knew it! It couldn't have been that everyone from Avon, Hamlet and Romeo & Juliet were human!! They were cardboard cutouts all along!

Wait, so Marcellus as Fortinbras is a human disguised as a cardboard cutout? Shocking!

Other way around, you're supposed to prove it is before prove it isn't. And as much as I'd like to rest believing it is officially G18 we need evidence first, regardless of subject.

See my last post.

Evidence points to G18, and neither Devcat nor Nexon have denied it.

I have read your post, I see no evidence. If you really feel the need to reiterate it, paraphrase it and reply to this, then.

Large sections of mainstream story are broken up into Generations, which are numbered, usually based on the order they come out. This is a large section of the mainstream story. The last piece was 17, which implies that this one is 1 + 17. Since nothing was explicated, we have to go with what's implied.

equally good reason to call it g17s5(e1-10)

Not really. The the amount of questing in all 10 episodes implies generation, not season.

You could say it's almost as good a reason to call it G17s5-s15; but they start at 1, implying it's the equivalent of season 1; 15 is a lot more seasons than you'd expect; and so far, generation quests have been released during their respective generations(the g2 story wasn't released in g3).

VERY good point Legiathan.

I still so no evidence Sozen. . . You're just making assumptions based on previous patches.

I'm using previous patches to point out a pattern that should be obvious. My only assumption is that nothing has changed, because I have yet to see evidence that that it did.

As I said, evidence it is G18 before evidence it isn't is necessary. Your entire argument is based on wishful continuity.

... continuity is the default case. How about you give me some evidence that something has changed before you ask for evidence that nothing happened?

That's just not how it works, just because you can't prove something doesn't give you leeway to turn the table upside down. Innocent until proven guilty, evidence before faulty evidence. You need to prove it is G18 first, and I really do hope you can because I don't like holes like this but as far as I am concerned that's just it, Just The Saga: Iria, no Generation 18 tacked on.

You're the one arguing guilty in that metaphor. Burden of proof is on you.

As I said, the burden of proof isn't on me because you have not proved this is Generation 18 and there is nothing suggesting so besides speculation based on past updates.

Like i said, I'm not the one with something to prove because I'm not the one arguing that something happened/changed. Chunks of divided into Generations, That's how this system works by default. Until they say they've changed that system, we don't need proof that they didn't.

And as I said, nothing "changed". It's not of the same thing, and you need evidence that it is. Otherwise I think it is reliable to call the Puppeteer sidequest Generation 17.

The puppeteer thing was kinda short, had very few cutscenes/RPs, and I didn't notice any references to other stories, so i never bothered to argue for this, but it is a quest chain(several that can't be done out of order because finishing 1 is how you get the next) with a significant amount of story, so it would fit better with mainstream stuff as g17s2 than with solitary quests like Duncan's Call.

why does your pride rest in proving its g18, not just saga:iria?

by that logic, the mabinogi classic update should have been a new generation too... or 3 new generations, in which case, we would have had it go from g16 to g17, g18, and g19 being the new g1,2, and 3.. and lets not talk about the alchemist questline revamps

The revamps were revamps, no new story added.

the story WAS changed though, or at least, some parts were removed

It's still the same part of the same story, in the same slot on the timeline.