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Talk:Patches
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Contents
| Thread title | Replies | Last modified |
|---|---|---|
| Chapter 5 | 184 | 18:40, 1 February 2024 |
| To-do list. | 11 | 14:32, 26 September 2020 |
| Renovation Extra | 4 | 07:29, 16 August 2020 |
| Reorganization pending. | 63 | 06:13, 21 July 2020 |
| Compression | 4 | 06:13, 21 July 2020 |
| Missing Avalon Gate Missions? | 1 | 23:57, 16 December 2017 |
| Memento | 1 | 16:33, 16 June 2017 |
| Reborn | 0 | 16:36, 1 September 2016 |
| Renovation - Archery | 19 | 11:35, 17 June 2015 |
| Renovation - Close Combat | 2 | 13:02, 22 April 2015 |
| Generation 19 Extra | 1 | 14:36, 18 March 2015 |
| Rejuvinogi | 5 | 20:21, 12 February 2015 |
| VIP Tab Adjustment | 2 | 23:12, 11 December 2014 |
| Saga: Iria 2 | 0 | 18:15, 9 October 2014 |
| Beginner Benefits | 7 | 15:33, 1 October 2014 |
| Treasure Hunter - Artifact Sale | 1 | 22:12, 14 September 2014 |
| Chapter 5 - Part Two | 1 | 18:20, 14 August 2014 |
| From the Shadows - Patch Notes | 3 | 12:16, 23 July 2014 |
| Celtic Knot Icons | 0 | 13:50, 15 July 2014 |
| New Beginnings: Pet Rebirth | 17 | 01:38, 30 June 2014 |
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This needs to be confirmed now. Is G18~ officially called C5?
the mabinogi team has stated in a few places (IDR where, might be overseas) that g18 and mabinogi zero are entirely different types of storyline releases. g18 is the last generation update we're gonna get, and its in episodes, not seasons... and i suspect the next patch maint to introduce new content will either be with the gunner episode, or with mabinogi zero, the start of the non generation patch updates
as such i doubt calling it chapter 5 is accurate at all
If g18 is the last generation then that means the mystery belvast place will come this generation o:
Chapters are moreso used to indicate different development teams, than story arcs. Since some storylines even overlap.
Where's your proof? Where the hell did it say G18 and onwards is Chapter 5?
If you're going to be this technical, then you should drop "Generation 17" and "Generation 18". Both are unofficial terms, coined by the fans and players, just like "Chapter 5".
devCAT/Nexon dropped the "Generations" once we hit the "Classics" Update.
Good point, perhaps we SHOULD drop them? I vote for dropping the "Chapter" headers and renaming G18 just "The Saga: Iria".
Don't care... I really do not care...
But how are we going to name the line of saga quests?
Instead of "Generation 18: Episode 1 - Fate's Origin: The Demon", how about "The Saga: Iria - Episode 1 - Fate's Origin: The Demon"?
Oneris does sound like a colon cancer, but meh.
There is a dash in the sage between the EP and the name.
Hm there's also a hyphen between Saga and Iria as stated in the Journal...
What about Shamala and Nightmare? It does have that generation marker if I'm not mistaken.
Move it back to Sidequests?
That was moved to its own page for a different reason. I agree with removing Generation 17 from its page name but not moving it back to Sidequests.
Mm, then what do we put above it on the main page? Saga, even though its actually not a part of it?
Personally, I vote for removing Chapter 1, 2, 3, 4, from the main page and just putting them by themselves. > .>
I'm thinking more like potential way 1 but only the generation tag taken away from G17 and G18, unless we find evidence that it's not used in earlier gens like G16, or we decide to remove mentions of generations altogether.
Generations up to 16 are definitely canon; they're in the icons and descriptions for completing each generation in the Journal, and most people know them as g1-g16. After that, the Journal just refers to them as Saga, so Potential way 2 looks better to me.
But G17 isn't the Saga either, and G18 isn't going to be the only Saga of Iria (or so NX KR claims).
Okay, G17 is Canon, according to patch notes, and it ends at Shamala Nightmare: Prologue.
G18 does not exist, and everything is Sagas from this point on, am I correct?
The very, very, very beginning patch notes calls it "G1S1" and stuff along the lines until Pioneers of Iria.
The Strategy Guide calls the Dark Knight storyline "G3" instead of its actual name.
If Nexon KR said that generations end after the zero update, that means that g18 really is officially g18 as well.
But they implied it when they said zero is the end of generations. They implied that g18 is g18, and they never said or implied that g18 was not g18, so I think g18 is closer to being canon than the absence of g18.
From what I'm getting, he seems to be saying that since 'Generations' don't end until the Zero update, and SAGA is before the Zero update, then Saga is a Generation.
But that doesn't mean it is actually G18. It could be Generation:Saga for all we know. I believe the counter-proof that Saga is not G18 is that the patch notes for Shamala- Nightmare: Prologue are labeled G17S4 even if in-game it wasn't called G17, but Saga-Iria is just labeled Saga-Iria, meaning they didn't even label it G18 themselves in the patch notes.
They leave things out of the patch notes all the time. Just because it's not labeled doesn't mean it's not there.
Like Pyrus is saying, you're now claiming that Nexon announcements must be incomplete/flawed/mistaken in some way, in which case throws everything we could possibly know about Mabinogi into question.
Using your logic, how could we be sure C1-C4 aren't Volume 1, and Saga is Volume 2?
"claiming"? This is common knowledge. Half of Nexon's announcements leave something important out or are mistaken in some other way, and until a couple years ago, most of them weren't even in decent English. This throws nothing into question that wasn't already in question; this is a wiki, not a collection of Nexon's patch notes. The information we have on the game system, skills, items, monsters, races, quests, missions, dungeons, etc. is from in-game testing/research, the mines, or foreign wikis who got the info primarily from in game testing and the mines. Almost nothing on this site comes from Nexon's website except event dates and maintenance times, and maintenance times have often been wrong.
That's an entirely different arguement. It's one thing to say:
- We have proof something was added, even though it's not listed.
It's another thing to say:
- We have proof something they listed is incorrectly labeled.
^As far as I see, there is no proof yet.
I'm not sure what you mean. Proof it was added? Updates are still classified in the generation/season system for now, and the big changes make it obvious that it's the next one. Also, not that we need to, but we've also confirmed the number with a pickaxe.
The official evidence might not be explicit, but it's there, and the shady evidence is precise. What more reason do we need to call this what it is?
The whole point of this thread is that it shouldn't be called C5 (or G18 for that matter) just because it was obtained with a pickaxe. By the same logic, Shamala and Nightamre are an entirely different chapter than the Saga.
I agree that it should still be called C4(at least until we get more information). However it's definitely G18, that wasn't obtained with a pickaxe; it was confirmed with a pickaxe, but we already knew without it.
Assuming we didn't yet get it from a pickaxe, and we JUST confirmed it with a pickaxe later, how do we know so? We just assumed it would be G18 instead of G17S4. What's in question here seems to be the legitimacy of mining.
We know because major updates are new generations. Big update = next number unless Nexon specifies otherwise(clearly states a different number that makes sense).
Also, saga has it's own quest tab, another very clear sign that it's at the very least a new gen.
The legitimacy of mining isn't in question. If it was, half the info on every skill and item page would be gone.
With that logic, Field Boss Raids have their own quest tab, so they're G19.
So, we're just assuming it's G18 and basing confirmation on data mining of things that aren't visible ingame? At least things like splash radius are visible within game, just not in the same form.
My point is, just because it's mined, doesn't mean it's accurate. Have you seen how many things they misnamed? Even compared to the KR official english name.
Raids don't have a long story or a long series of quests in a specific order, same thing for event tab.
The assumption is that, until the distributor changes the labeling style, part 18 comes after part 17. And we would never have gotten numbers that precise for splash without mining; monster hitbox sizes vary, you can't be certain the monsters are exactly where you think they are with this game's lag, and we don't have many people on the NA server who are actually willing to do all that work to test these things.
When something that was mined seems to be wrong, it's usually because the miner copied the wrong value(like when there was an edit war AR summary chart cause some people were looking at stam needed instead of stam used). There may be some things in the files that don't match the server, but generation number is not one of them. Devcat picked that label, and nexon has no reason to mess with it. It's not flavor text that might be reworded to sound better in English, and it's not a number that effects combat that could need to be nerfed. It's the version label, and it's not going to change from g18 to g15s11.2 for no reason, and even if it did, we should assume it didn't unil they say so, cause we have no reason to believe the gen # is anything but 18.
Sorry, but I think we're starting to confuse "Generation Updates" and "Generation Quests".
The mainstream quests released in the g2 update were called g2 mainstream, g3 was g3, etc. how is 18=18 such a stretch?
That's just it, there shouldn't have to be a stretch at all. It should either be explicitly stated or not. And in this case it is not so it shouldn't be. I'm usually overly conservative but I just feel this is right, there isn't evidence of the Saga being called G18. For all we know, each episode of the saga could be a separate generation quest chain and the saga could be G18-27, if that makes sense.
This isn't something like the Iria update where they threw in 3 gens worth of updates in one, there is no ambiguity about what number this G is at all. If you don't want info that's not explicitly mentioned by Nexon, why not just stop using the wiki and rely on Nexon's vague Engrish press releases for all our information?
Nexon KR said everything up to zero is still gens, so if we're using the generation labels at all, this needs one too. Even if we hadn't looked up what Devcat calls it, we'd know what it was because 18 makes the most sense. The story update is too big to be a season, individual updates are too short to assume they're all gens. Sure, they could change their minds and decide to call it g18-27, but until they say they did, we have to assume that whatever makes the most sense is correct.
Your last sentence can also be used to counter-argue, I just don't see why there is evidence it is or isn't G18.
How? Which number makes more sense after 17 than 18? pi? e? negative google?
NX KR said this is still a numbered G. Updates of this size with this much new story are, by default, new Gs, and the previous one was 17. Even if we ignore the very specific, straightforward label in the file, there is enough evidence it's g18, and no evidence it's not.
You still haven't really provided any evidence that the STORYLINE (not update) is G18, that's all I want.
This piece of the story is released during G18, and is clearly a mainstream quest chain. That's more than enough until there's an official announcement saying it's not g18.
That doesn't change the fact that it's a large quest chain continuing the mainstream story.
-_-...really? Okay, IIRC, actors in Mabi are animated pieces of paper. Was he a cardboard cutout when he appeared in saga? Before episode 1, was there a cutscene of Ruari in the beauty shop waiting room, being lectured by Manus on the risks involved in an operation to downgrade to 2D?
Damn it. I knew it! It couldn't have been that everyone from Avon, Hamlet and Romeo & Juliet were human!! They were cardboard cutouts all along!
Other way around, you're supposed to prove it is before prove it isn't. And as much as I'd like to rest believing it is officially G18 we need evidence first, regardless of subject.
I have read your post, I see no evidence. If you really feel the need to reiterate it, paraphrase it and reply to this, then.
Large sections of mainstream story are broken up into Generations, which are numbered, usually based on the order they come out. This is a large section of the mainstream story. The last piece was 17, which implies that this one is 1 + 17. Since nothing was explicated, we have to go with what's implied.
Not really. The the amount of questing in all 10 episodes implies generation, not season.
You could say it's almost as good a reason to call it G17s5-s15; but they start at 1, implying it's the equivalent of season 1; 15 is a lot more seasons than you'd expect; and so far, generation quests have been released during their respective generations(the g2 story wasn't released in g3).
VERY good point Legiathan.
I still so no evidence Sozen. . . You're just making assumptions based on previous patches.
I'm using previous patches to point out a pattern that should be obvious. My only assumption is that nothing has changed, because I have yet to see evidence that that it did.
As I said, evidence it is G18 before evidence it isn't is necessary. Your entire argument is based on wishful continuity.
... continuity is the default case. How about you give me some evidence that something has changed before you ask for evidence that nothing happened?
That's just not how it works, just because you can't prove something doesn't give you leeway to turn the table upside down. Innocent until proven guilty, evidence before faulty evidence. You need to prove it is G18 first, and I really do hope you can because I don't like holes like this but as far as I am concerned that's just it, Just The Saga: Iria, no Generation 18 tacked on.
As I said, the burden of proof isn't on me because you have not proved this is Generation 18 and there is nothing suggesting so besides speculation based on past updates.
Like i said, I'm not the one with something to prove because I'm not the one arguing that something happened/changed. Chunks of divided into Generations, That's how this system works by default. Until they say they've changed that system, we don't need proof that they didn't.
And as I said, nothing "changed". It's not of the same thing, and you need evidence that it is. Otherwise I think it is reliable to call the Puppeteer sidequest Generation 17.
The puppeteer thing was kinda short, had very few cutscenes/RPs, and I didn't notice any references to other stories, so i never bothered to argue for this, but it is a quest chain(several that can't be done out of order because finishing 1 is how you get the next) with a significant amount of story, so it would fit better with mainstream stuff as g17s2 than with solitary quests like Duncan's Call.
by that logic, the mabinogi classic update should have been a new generation too... or 3 new generations, in which case, we would have had it go from g16 to g17, g18, and g19 being the new g1,2, and 3.. and lets not talk about the alchemist questline revamps
so it would be more along these lines?
and while thats all well and good, i think itd be nice to get a nexon employee's opinion, do we have any way of doing that officially?
Let me restate, Shamala and Nightmare are NOT a part of G18 or the Drama, and they're not proven to be G17 yet either.
Also, the wiki is not associated with Nexon and they don't want to associate with the wiki.
Oneris, nothing in your posts proved anything other than time of release which were not at question. . . Infodude is correct, the puppeteer quest chains deserves to be labeled as G17 no less than Shamala and Nightmare. And the Fighter quest chain is also a part of G16, at that logic.
So you're saying that G17 is another 'empty' update like G4, G5, and G6. Content only, with no actual storyline.
In that case, I feel it's a bit unfair to Shamala and Nightmare, which Nexon made so much effort to be noticed and completed, that they are placed in such an obscure page as Sidequests under even the fished-up 'note in a bottle' sidequests.
I am proposing a separate page for such prologues and sidestories on a separate page, Mainstream Sidequests, to emphasize their importance.
Uhh...the only storyline present in C2 (G4 5 6) is...well Elves are revealed to have a lost power that they once had and the same thing applies to giant. That storyline is exclusive to them.
Wait, so you're saying the Falcon and Beast Trans Quests are G4-6? Ohhh, that makes a lot of sense now...
Oh well, too bad they got retconned.
Yep...to a human's point of view, it's nothing special other than new lands to explore. Elves and Giants on the other hand, go out to "re-explore" the past and learn of ancient powers that they once possessed during the Giant-Elven Wars. No, they didn't get retconned. You can still access it, but since G2 is WAY easier...yeah...older characters can still access the old trans quest and may do it the hard way.
The only thing the new G2 incorporated was that Elves and Giants had a hidden power that needs to be unlocked through the ciar trial.
I fail to see how Shamala or Nightmare are any more important than any other sidequest other than they give AP for rewards. In fact, now that the NA version doesn't require AP like the KR version, I don't see reason for it to be separate from the Sidequests page (like I originally proposed solely based on that fact).
And if we were to put a mainstream sidequests, what would even go in here? Only other sidequest I can think of relevant to any generation story wise is the underground waterway, as all the rest are side stories or completely irrelevant (like The violet, The Honey Drink, Golvan, Ascon). And if we DO move all those unimportant sidequests there, what then will be left of the Sidequests page?. . .
Exactly. Any of the sidequests pertaining to Mainstream NPC, like all the ones you listed will be moved to the new page.
And all of the remaining ones could be take out of spoiler tags, since none of them are anything past a single quest in length. The page is already kinda messy as it is, with spoiler tags and labels and quests not in spoiler tags and qualifiers for the mainstream quests and etc.
Personally, I'd prefer a separate page for each set of mainstream sidequests, formatted in the way that Shamala and Nightmare is currently formatted, but that may be too split up for your tastes.
PS: Also, I removed Age quests from that page because they're already in Beginner Quests
I think you mistook my bastaridzation as evidence they were relevant to the mainstream storyline which is untrue. . .
My point is, if we consider even those mainstream, then what ISN'T mainstream? And if we ONLY consider Underground Waterway, Shamala, and Nightmare mainstream, that's very few. I vote for moving Shamala and Nightmare back to sidequests, as the only reason I even considered moving it because it was a prerequisite of the Saga, which is incorrect.
I'm fine with giving them each separate quests provided we also gives quests, like those to obtain skills, their own pages.
Also, did you move the Age quests to beginner quests? Or did you just remove it altogether?
I meant essentially any quest on that page that is labeled under G#: XXXXX Sidequests. They're all of pretty long length, unlike the other quests on that page. Maybe the g15 one could be tacked onto...something...it's too short for its own page...whatev, but everything else is of a pretty good length. Have a single page for all of the sidequests for a generation or something.
Also, did you even look at the Beginner Quests (Human Uladh)#Coming-of-Age_Ceremony before you reverted my change? If none of the others in that list are sidequests, why is that one specifically?
For the aging quests, I was looking at Special:Contributions/Oneris, I apologize.
My point is, if we move all quests in released in chapter x to its own page, with aging quests gone, all there is left is notes in bottles (which should get its own item page to be honest) and four minor quests. Which to be honest, I think Kousai's Call is a part of G7.
If Duncan's Call level 250 quest is lumped in with Beginner Level and Aging, maybe we could dump the rest minus the fishing bottles and Kousai's Call in the same category?
Or we could take the Action quests from all the pages, and lump those in with these as 'Other', since they're all the same, except for their availability to giants. I really don't know...
I'd be okay for moving Kousai's call to G7 and the other quests minus the bottles to beginner quests, but I'd much rather:
- A: Remerge Shamala/Nightmare with Sidequests
or
- B: Give every single quest chain its own page. And I think it would be better to organize it by released in same chapter, not released in same generation. . . But again, own page for each would be better, under a common category.
if youre gonna do that, maybe i could request that you do so in a manner similar to saga-iria's episodes?
a page that lists them, and has a link to each in the list
if you mean this page Sidequests i think you misunderstood what i meant.. i mean a page thats got organisation like the saga page Generation 18. rather than a mess of quests all on the same page, it would be a set of links, all to separate pages, each of which would be a separate side quest
I dunno, I like putting it all after the main generation it was released with, so Andras's Story and the Violets would be put after G9, as an alternative link at the top, so on the G9 page, you get a link at the top to the next generation, G10, and another one for G9 Sidequests.
No, anything, ANYTHING is better than for example, violet quest chain being on the G9 page. I HATE that and it just makes no sense at all. . . What is the logic behind that? That's like saying the destiny page should be on the G13 page.
G9 was a prerequisite for that quest, so those 2 quest chains are kinds linked. That's also why I'm not against calling Shamala mainstream.
So, to get rain casting, G10 is a prerequisite. The skill is now a part of the mainstream? I don't see how quest would differ in role than a skill in this kind of scenario.
Isn't getting raincasting an integral part of G10 that you couldn't skip even if you wanted to? I thought it was always part of the mainstream, like life drain.
pretty much this, yes, really bad example there, a better example of his point would be the quest to get shock up to rank F
I'd say that while shock itself is a Mainstream Skill, the Shock rN->rF quest is closer to the old Paladin Passive Defense quest, in that it's triggered only after the main Generation is over, and is tied more closely to the skill itself than the Generation, ergo, it would be grouped under Skill Quests more than Generation Sidequests.
Luckily, we don't need to worry about it, because the Shock rF quest fits nicely on the Shock page.
I think the Main difference between the Shock rF and old Paladin Passive Defense quest versus the Puppeteer and Fighter and Shamala quests is that the Shock and PPD quests were focused around getting the skills, while Puppeteer and Fighter and Shamala were focused around a backstory and the skills were mere rewards for completion of quests. In effect, the Sidequest chains themselves would change none even if all of the skill rewards were removed.
I'd say we move those pages to its own and have the Gen pages link to them. I mean, its been done for Paladin PD and Dark Knight Quest.
I'll be fine if we do this:
- Move each sidequest to its own page.
- Use the current sidequests page as disambiguation, like the Saga page.
- ONLY link sidequests that need a mainstream quest before hand in the mainstream page.
- Like you would link to "Andras' Story" in the G9 page because G9 is a requirement, but not "Grave with Violets placed on Top", because it is irrelevant to the story and completion of G9, nor does it need G9 as a requirement.
Above is assuming you specifically say they are irrelevant to the Generation quest in question.
Okay, so here is what is established/what I think:
- There is no Generation 18 as far as the storyline is concerned. The update is G18 but the Saga storyline is not, and Shamala/Nightmare are not G17.
- The Saga Page should remain a disambiguation, just not labeled as Generation 18. G18 can still redirect to it to avoid confusion.
- NO sidequest should go on a Generation page, at most we can reference that you can start x sidequest at x point of a Generation quest. If you can start a sidequest independently of a generation quest, it does not deserve a mention on that generation quest's page.
- Sidequests page should not be removed but should be changed.
Here is what we have to vote on:
- All Sidequests get readded to the Sidequests page, and Shamala/Nightmare is demoted since it is not a requirement of G18 as previously thought.
- Or the Sidequests Page turns into a disambiguation page, similar to the Saga Page, and EVERY sidequest gets its own page (its either all or none), with the exception of the aging quests and etc that are considered beginner quests.
- Note in the bottle should go on the note in bottle's item page. If its quests are named differently than the item, they should be redirected to the Note in Bottle page.
What we're iffy on is the layout of the newmenu table on the front page, discuss the above (for newmenu, scroll down in the thread.)
Most of the sidequest stuff looks like they could be moved elsewhere, but keep the page just to link to it, perhaps?
As for newmenu, either we have Saga header or put The Saga: Iria under Chapter 4?
Why am I still watching this...that aside, and my stupid jetlag (;-;), I still suggest to place sidequests that relates to the completion of the generation to be either linked onto the same page (i.e. Andras's past) or at least linked else where so it is not lumped into that...sidequest page. It's hard enough to look for it to begin with and sidequest is such a broad term..
As was explained in this following bullet mentioned above:
- NO sidequest should go on a Generation page, at most we can reference that you can start x sidequest at x point of a Generation quest. If you can start a sidequest independently of a generation quest, it does not deserve a mention on that generation quest's page.
We're not saying it should go on a Generation page. We're saying it should go on its own page, but be linked from the Generation page.
By not mentioning the quest at all, how is anyone going to know it even exists? God knows how many non-editors even know of the existence of pages for keywords, much less keyword-linked sidequests. I mean, 'Grave with Violets' isn't even mentioned on Perrick's page, so if it were taken off the oh-so-cluttered Sidequests page and barred from being linked to on the G9 page, it would quite literally (and yes, I'm using that correctly) disappear from the knowledge of the rest of the wiki users.
I was just repeating an earlier line, but okay so lets link to the Commerce page on G15. Just saying, players not knowing about a feature is at fault of advertizing it on the main page, not including/mentioning it on a irrelevant page.
It was never mentioned that we ever considered delinking it form the Sidequests page. Just that it should either be given its own page that the sidequests page links to (if one quest gets its own page, they all deserve one), or all of the sidequests should remain on the sidequests page. But good point, I'll try to add violets to Pierrick's page later.
Are you talking about the Sidequests or Raincasting? Because the rainmaker dungeon you run for that skill introduces Possessed Cai as a villain, with is supposed to be a revelation in-story.
If you're talking about Shamala and Nightmare Generation Sidequests etc, then I'm with you.
Sidequests.
That poses a problem: As Sozen said, the logos have c1/c2/c3.
I don't care if they're organized under chapters or not, the Chapter subheader just makes it the list unnecessarily longer. (And I'm probably a hypocrite because I believe I added those there.)
On the front page or the patches page? Front's pretty stretched out thanks to skills and those sub classification of weapons.
C1 and C2 could probably be listed somewhere in the archives of Nexon's announcements...
Kevin you know that icon right next to the quest? Yeah that.
What happened to the C4 one before?
On a related note: where did people even come up with the concept of "chapters" in mabi?
Probably from translating foreign wikis. Nexon pretty much confirmed that chapters are an official thing when they replaced the quest scroll logos for mainstream stuff in the quest window with the book logo saying c1/c2/c3. There were more examples of nexon NA talking about chapters during 2 and 3, but i don't remember exactly where right now.
On a similar note, DevCAT in Nexon Korea said starting Zero there will be no more generations, there will never be a chapter 5 or G19.
Also, I would like some hard evidence, it saying chapter 5 somewhere ingame or in data, or at least Nexon saying Chapter 5 or indicating that it's en entirely new team (not just one or two fires/new hires) before we readd Chapter 5 to G17 and/or G18.
Oh okay. I just thought it was weird that devCat would have an NA branch or any other for that matter.
I... agree with Kevin here. I wouldn't want debates and arguments and whatnot to stretch out again... This one had so many replies to it...
In my opinion, unless we're specifically sending this to DevCAT and they respond, I don't think we should consider it. If it is JUST NA Nexon, I'd rather not take their advice without a grinder.
I'm not going to read the wall of text, have we come to a decision?
I...think?
So far, I think we've ((probably just me)) concluded the following
- Delete all mention of 'Chapter 5' and replace with 'The Saga - Iria'
- Shamala and Nightmare is not G17 but a Sidequest Prequel
- Does that mean it goes under Saga? Kinda a grey zone here.
- Kousai's Call on the Sidequest Page goes to G8
- Duncan's Call goes to Aging and Level Quests in Beginner Quests, not sure where exactly, maybe copied over all races' pages.
- All the Generation Sidequests are moved into individual pages called G#-Sidequests and placed as an alternate link after its Generation in the {{Generation}} tag, and/or linked after the main Generation, like the old Paladin PD and Dark Knight Quests.
- Bottled Note Quests are moved into own page?
- The Advancement Arena quests are deleted because they're already listed on the Advancement Arena page?
- The Sidequests Page is used as disambiguation for those moved quests?
Mind you, more than half the stuff on this list is probably still in debate somewhere in this thread, so I have no idea...
Implemented in G8 (I think), you get during G7 (or before since you actually have to activate it...) so that if you want to, you may skip to 8.
Shamala and Nightmare being a part of the Saga doesn't make sense since it was released before the Saga came out. I'd be more comfortable if we used "C# Sidequests" instead of "G# Sidequests" because G# would create more pages and would confuse people. Like some sidequests were released in G14 but can be completed after G13. And I think Shamala/Nightmare belongs in C4 Sidequests.
I would kinda like having long quests like Golvan and Ascon and Underground Waterway etc to have their own page, since they're already pretty long by themselves. Letsee...
- Andras Story: Must complete G9 to do, place after G9
- Grave with Violets: Keyword start, Gives backstory on Cai and Lena, place after G9 or on C3 sidequest page,
- Honey Drink: Keyword Start, Place on C3 Sidequest page
- Corrupt Alchemist: Optional during G9 start, or Keyword start, maybe place on either G9 or C3 sidequest, with a link to the other?
- Underground Waterway: place after G11
- Golvan: I think I got this after finishing R+J, place after G14
- Ascon: place somewhere before G15 as it is referenced in G15. For continuity's sake, I'd prefer after G14 as a kind of prequel to G15.
- Day of Liberation: Too short to put by itself, but there's nothing else on the C4 sidequest page, tack onto end of G15? or dump on the Belvast/Kinu/Admiral Owen page, with link to other
- Rush of Love: To long for C4 sidequest page, Guess it goes on its own after G16
- Puppeteer: Same as Rush of Love.
- Shamala and Nightmare: place after G16, but on its own without being grouped into G16
How does this look?
I'd rather have no page than place ANY sidequest on a generation page, that is the worst case scenerio imo. But I'm fine with them being on the main page like that, but Shamala and Nightmare are in the same position as Puppeteer and Rush of Love, not with greater priority.
They're not on a generation page, they're in between two, on a separate page, so you'd get on a G9 page an option to go to G10, or G9: Andras, or G9: Violets.
Honestly, I have little to no idea what to do with Puppeteer and Rust of Love. They're skill based quest chains and aren't tied to the mainstream, but have a strong story and are too long to go on a C4 sidequest page, and Rush of Love is credited in the journal, so obviously they're important. Would you prefer they not be grouped with any generation, and be put on the same level of importance as Shamala and Nightmare?
I'd rather, on the newmenu template, make a new column for sidequests and place all sidequests there, with no gen/chapter labels.
How about we put a section called "Sidequests" under Saga?
So like:
Mainstream Quests
- Not copypasting them all.
- Sagas
- Iria
- Sidequests
- Stuff and stuff?
Hmm, create and example of one under and one to the side and lets see how long/wide the table gets in an example of it on the main page.
Either of those ways would be okay, but what I don't like in that example is
- The Sagas
- Iria
So far there is only one Saga, and why are they separate?
Where else are we supposed to put it? Chapter 4?
If they do plan to continue the story without Gens, it'll probably be with Sagas.
Just thought I'd say that those side quests for puppet/fighter require you to equip a skill. It's essentially a skill quest chain, not a storyline based and there is no relation of the storyline whatsoever. Also I'd have to agree with Oneris on the whole Andras, Golvan and other things. Since it takes place directly towards completion of a generation, and it is part of the story, it would make sense to put it on the same page with a label saying "Post-Generation X." Same with DK quest e-e.
Oh woops..I just now realized that...uhh yeah I meant equip a weapon to initiate the skill chain...derp. You know what I meant. Though technically, equiping the weapon for the first time is like equipping a skill so...I'm not even gonna go into all the technicalities.
That doesn't solve shit. Generations and chapters are official, only Generation 18 nor Chapter 5 aren't.
(First, just a minor thing - when was Reforging Tool and Seal Scroll (Scroll) released?)
Since I've seen evidence of areas on the wiki not being updated in response to each Season, I've thought it was wise to make a to-do list for the next upcoming patch.
First, before the wiki's actually updated, each of the updates should be confirmed.
List:
- Update Gold Strike page
- Possibly, update every map on the wiki so that the NPCs, at least, would be in their correct spot.
- Update Commerce page with Smugglers, and make NPC pages for them
- Make a section similar to the Daily Shadow Missions for Today's Smuggler
- IF it's the spawning of Smugglers are based on something, see if a schedule similar to the Price timer, the Moon Gate timer, and the Rua timer on the forums can be built
- Update all the links connected to the Merchant Destiny section.
- Specifically, we might want to decide now if the Merchant-only Blueprints, Sewing Patterns, and woodcrafting recipes deserve a new section or just a new row in the Blacksmithing List, Tailoring List, and Carpentry List.
- All of the Part-time Jobs section of all the NPCs that give them should be updated with the Merchant-only rewards (and production EXP, too, though I don't think I've seen a page that lists that yet)
- All of the Skills that can be obtained by choosing a Merchant Beginner destiny should be noted.
- Update Weight of Desert Giant
I think that's all that's necessary.
Suggestions?
Partially right. We got Seal Scrolls midway G14S4 and Reforge midway G15S1. Don't write them as G14S4 and G15S1 because they aren't.
As for the Smugglers, there already is a base for information about them in the Commerce page, but to my knowledge there's only one Smuggler NPC. We don't have a page on it yet. As for the links to the Merchant destiny, you're way ahead of yourself, it's not even G15S3 yet... Especially with the Beginner Destiny skills.
What do you mean, way ahead of myself? This is supposed to be a list of stuff to do when G15S3 comes out. I mean, some of them are already done and some of them can probably have the hidden coding placed now, but what I'm trying to avoid is the stuff like the belated removal of mentions of Mana Evaporation from all the Wands pages, which only happened today, thanks to User:Meukawolf.
r101...Basic human card are given to accounts with and elf/giant char made as first char...? my elf alt has this basic human card for some reason...did i miss an update on the patch notes?
Season three hasn't been released yet, it's not from a patch note. Forumme from the Mabinogiworld Forums was also talking about this...not entirely sure what it's for. At worst, it's some kind of compensation.
I think it's only for accounts with a giant/elf and it's the only character on the account...personally this doesn't affect me much. plus I don't think you can use it as a rebirth...someone confirm this?
These Basic Cards and such was apparently sent to those who had lost Nuadha/Hebona/Lileas/etc. If you did lose them apparently you can find them in your Ego Food List. If you didn't lose any of those items, then i guess Nexon just felt happy.
Are you all happy now with that new instance zone and all that extra AP? That we're just one update away (their Ninja changes) from being completely caught up with KR Mabi?
http://mabinogi.nexon.net/News/All/1/00IeW
I care very little about the dungeon, have fun everyone.
Elves and Giants get slightly shafted with the AP journal thing, since they can't have Lance and Archer talent, respectively.
Also no idea what to do with 3k AP.
Don't give me that crap that it was released in sections/seasons overseas. As this is a North America Wiki, we should reflect patch notes based on what we got and not based on overseas content. Unreleased content can stay as is since well...we don't have it but we'll have something to base it on and edit through when the time comes. I noticed several repeats and I am only basing organization on whatever is on the front page of the wiki in the Server Updates section, and whatever was written on this page.
I believe we had an earlier discussion here. I was planning to do Project Cleanup on here and make my own userpage for it.
Also can we get rid of what patch other servers are on at the top as well as the trivia?
Not everyone has access to the foreign servers and if they do, why even bother with it? I vote removal since I do recall one of the links to the server was a 404 until I ran into it during my search for "Luck Evasion." I still hate how it works and how regardless of luck a hidden cap exists somewhere...
Looking into the nexon's official patch notes and...I don't like how it was done back in the day.
Going through the old patch notes is a nightmare...
Sounds like we're on the same page now, woo! Don't forget about the general mabi news archives which give way better details on the updates, such as seasons, than the server update box does. Even though it's a complete disaster trying to actually look thru it.
- I think saying what version number other servers are on is just stupid. That being said, I do think we should say what update title (if they're on master chef, treasure hunter, Saga 2, etc) another server is on and link to their site, like we do now. Just remove the version number crap.
- I don't think we should remove the trivia line about Pioneers of Iria being three separate generations in other servers, resulting in a massive patch in NA. But I don't necessarily think it belongs in trivia, it can go up to the Pioneers of Iria section.
- The EU note is important, I believe, because EU Mabi no longer exists and EU players have to play on NA servers now.
- I agree with merging seasons up IF we can prove that certain patches came in one update and not separate updates.
G1-11 can use some re-writing.
If you mean putting everything in the spoilers and not summarizing, I think we should yea sure. If you mean something else or that and something else, can you be more specific?
Compare the three below:
- Generation 1 is not only redundant (listing updates outside of the boxes when they're already in the boxes in the first place) but its also unorganized. This goes all the way until around G12.
- Generation 13 is simply unorganized and randomly spits out information.
- Generation 17 is organized, using headers like "Skills", "Talent", "Other", etc.
My suggestion is to re-write G1 - G14 as like its done in this G17 example.
On a semi-related note, why do we list the release dates of these patches on the front page and not on the patches page, like we did with some earlier updates like Generation 1.
Getting around to it...the patch notes are a nightmare to look for e-e and as far as exact dates...don't get me started.
Didn't we establish G18 ≠ Saga due to lack of evidence of the use of the word "Generation" or w/e?
IIRC it was in "thing that shall not be named".
I'd prefer it to be g18 since that's what everyone I hear calls it, but I guess it's for the best with diva and druid updates being thrown around etc.
Popular name ≠ Correct name, lets go with whatever shit name Nexon America gave us and not add on or remove things from the title.
Trivia, Skipped Content (Removal has been voted among higher ups to avoid confusion), and stuff like (but not limited to:
- Login Screen is changed.
- Various redundancies of repeated notes.
- Combo Cards have an increased drop rate.
- Pet additions
- These things (Should be noted elsewhere):
- Warning: Choosing a later generation makes the earlier ones unable to be redone (e.g. choosing Generation 3 makes G1 or 2 not redoable). However, choosing an earlier generation makes the next one doable (e.g. choosing Generation 1 makes G2 and 3 redoable).
- Warning: "C1 Complete" means the player does not want to redo any of the old generations.
There's more random minor things that could be removed but I don't feel like looking over all of it now. Patch notes are mess as is.
The admins decided there shouldn't be foreign content? Everywhere or just this page? (Meaning we cannot make an unreleased content page?)
What's wrong with mentioning increased drop rate? Other than being possibly difficult to prove.
Also, wouldn't it be better to mention all the patches that change the login screen, rather than removing it from the ones that do? Or possibly just adding a gallery at the bottom of the page.
For now, just here in regards for skipped content. Unreleased is another story. and we have a gallery somewhere on Kiyoura's page.
Why not add a gallery to an official page?
So we're going with the G19,20,21 method previously mentioned in the other thread?. . .
Unless Nexon NA directly states "Generation #" or anything, no. Patch notes should reflect what Nexon NA says. I don't even think they used "Generation 18" but instead Sagas.
That's not what I meant, in the previous thread the G19,20,21 example was a hypothetical situation. Let me put it this way, KR got the updates in this order: Druid, Diva, Vate. NA got Druid as expected in the ocrrect order but NA never announced the other two heroes. We later get Vate, making Diva skipped content. A month later we get Diva, AFTER Vate. In that time frame between Vate and Diva, what happens to the patch notes on Diva?
The way the page is currently set up, treasure hunter and SMART content are listed as unreleased. So using your example of KR's release vs NA's hero releases, the period between the Vate and Diva patches would have been listed as:
- druid patch notes
- vate patch notes
-notice talking about future unreleased content-
- diva patch notes
- cul artist patch notes
- treasure hunter patch notes
- SMART content patch notes
So if that's the case, we would include Unreleased Content (meaning the Skipped Content section, whether or not it is actually Skipped) because Diva would then directly fall into that category. Don't think of this on terms of what's currently on the page, think of how we would handle the page in the future. We might get Smart Content next patch, then the Saga 2, then Treasure Hunter after all that. Although unlikely, things like this do and have happened on a smaller scale and can happen on a larger scale. If we remove skipped content, then that would mean removing information on Treasure Hunter if/when we get Smart Content first and not readding it until it does finally come out or is announced, which sounds plain stupid and unprofessional to me.
You seem to have a funny definition of skipped content. Future content =/= skipped content. Skipped content means, for one reason or another, things that were originally supposed to be in an implemented patch (emphasis on the implemented) were excluded and that we may or may not receive it in the future. What you're describing is getting one patch before another, in which case, we wouldn't have to worry about "skipped content", as there's no content to even skip at that point. This is the wiki for mabi NA, so obviously there are going to be differences in how things are implemented between NA and KR. Now...please explain your logic on how a change in the ordering of future major patches, which have yet to even been implemented in the NA version of mabinogi, translates into skipping an entire major patch, because you've honestly lost me at this point.
This was also mentioned in one of the earlier threads by Blargel:
You're saying it as if we are guaranteed to get the Diva update, that's falling to the fallacy of entitlement. NA could in their own right chose to have only released Druid and Vate. People are questioning if NA will ever get Ninja simply because it is JP first and not KR first, what if it was KR first and NA just never chose to release it? If we don't get the update in KR's order, we should then remove it? I honestly don't see how this is different from "Skipped Content", this is what the purpose of the Skipped Content section is, updates we may never get or have not yet got in the expected timespan.
If we get Smart Content next patch, and NA has yet to announce Treasure Hunter, are we going to remove the patch notes of Treasure Hunter from this page or move it to skipped content? That's the important question.
/facepalm
I can't predict what Nexon NA will do. When we get it, things will change accordingly and anything we did not get will be removed. However, if it gets implemented later, then it will be put back in, but the content will be in its proper patch as NA got it. Unreleased ≠ Skipped by any means. We either get it, or don't get it. The original intention of skipped content was that the content was not in its proper patch from its origin and has not been seen. Since it was established that Skipped Content does not exists, it simply means Nexon NA has either no intention of bringing it to disturb the balance or it was a decision from a business standpoint. I can't tell you what they are thinking, but whatever we get, we'll list, and any unreleased content we didn't get, can be left until implementation. I want to say if we don't get by the next major patch, we can remove it.
You don't have to tell me what Skipped Content's purpose was. If you look in the page's history, I was the one who added the section. (Yes I now regret using the term "Skipped" rather than something like "Unreleased".)
Ignore for the moment that definition of skipped content or what is currently in the skipped content section. You're saying if we get Smart Content patch next in NA and then the Saga 2 like KR did but not get Treasure Hunter next update, or possibly ever, we're just going to completely remove the patch notes for Treasure Hunter from this page and only rewrite it there once and assuming if NA ever announces it or does a surprise patch with it? Really?
Please reread everything that you've said up until this point, because you are either contradicting your previous statements at every turn, or pulling arguments out of thin air.
Nope, I'm saying it as if it's future content. Also, the fallacy you're looking for is the appeal to probability, which doesn't apply in this case. Funny how you try to say that I'm falling for a fallacy when you, yourself, have been using kettle logic for three threads and counting.
Thank you for repeating what I said earlier. Keeping that quote in mind, that means that it's not decided by KR when we get the patches, correct? So how would that make diva skipped content if said content was not meant to be added before the vates patch in NA? Answer: It wouldn't.
Pyro, please read the following sentences until you understand them; "This is the wiki for the NA version of mabinogi. The patches are released based on the discretion of the ones running the game, not on the release schedule of KR. Saying that content is 'skipped' solely because it was added in a patch different from the KR version is false."
As for the important question you asked: There is no more skipped content section/page. The patch notes would remain in the unreleased contents section.
Yinato, please stop. I am not referring to what your'e saying, I am addressing Lexis. I may be misunderstanding what she is saying, but by what I understand of what she is saying, she is not saying "The patch notes would remain in the unreleased contents section." like you are. She is saying the Admins have decided and the patch notes would then be removed from the page entirely until/if NA ever announces it.
Also, can you ask the admins to make a post about their supposed decision you said they made? Most wiki users and wiki readers cannot hear these private conversations and do not want to take the word of semiadmins, rather hear some official announcement.
I asked Kadalyn last night and she thought we agreed to remove skipped content from this page and rename it to something like "foreign content" or something similar. In my opinion, this should include "unreleased content". There was no decision on an official name.
So we keep a skipped content section just not use implicit euphemisms like "Skipped", say it is unreleased, like it is?
I'm not a fan of the word unreleased, either, because it could easily be misconstrued. But if by "section" you mean not on this page, then yes.
My opinion is that it doesn't need clever nomenclature, so it could be an article called "Content on other regions" or "Patches in other regions" or "Patches (other regions)". It's a bit out of line with the typical page on this wiki, but it's pretty normal for other wikis. I proposed "foreign content" as the "clever" name, but I don't like it too much. I just came up with the (other regions) idea, but I think I like it. Regardless, it should focus on geographical naming rather than release state.
Edit: Actually, I guess using "Patches" implies a specific article structure like this one, so maybe it's not the best. Regardless, this is a minor detail and the name can always be changed later. Just pick a name for now.
Permission to make a "Foreign Content" page immediately? Or should I wait until you guys come up with something more decisive?
What about things that were supposed to be released, but because of some bug or something, they didn't get released like the auction renewal.
That would be under skippd content unless it was specified as a bug by a nexon employee/representative.
So if we have proof of it being meant to be implemented but through some "bug" is not yet, would we then include it on this page or just the current bugs page? Assuming the answer to the previous question is just current bugs page, what if it specifically says it was supposed to come up in a specific patch (that is listed in the Patches page).
At the top of the page:
If it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, then it shouldn't be on the page. Including things we didn't get (for whatever reason) could lead to confusion. With bugs, such as being able to place kiosks in another bag, mentioning it on the current bugs page is probably enough, but mentioning it on that specific page probably wouldn't hurt either. However, if it's something like the exclusion of the diamond leather set, then it'd be sufficient to just mark those items as unimplemented on their respective pages.
I have a minor disagreement. On occasion, a change takes place without being mentioned in the patch notes. If a change is observable, should it not be noted? (for example, at some point when the stores were updated to carry elf and giant gear after the introduction of Taillteann, they also removed several items like the Wooden Club)
The thing about those kinds of additions/removals is that since it isn't explicitly stated, one can only make an educated guess as to when it happened (ie. renaming of the Premium Adventurer Newbie Wear) if/when it's noticed. There may also be changes made that aren't part of a major patch, in which case the page would end up becoming messier since you'd then be pointing out specific patch versions.
So you suggest we strictly follow NA's patch notes, assuming they have any, and only paraphrase what they have? That would make most of this page pointless, NA doesn't go into nearly enough detail.
Once again, you're overcomplicating things and completely missing the context of a message. You asked, "So if we have proof of it being meant to be implemented but through some "bug" is not yet, would we then include it on this page or just the current bugs page?"
My post was in response to the skipped content that you were referring to in your question. Is skipped content ever mentioned in the patch notes? Nope, hence the "If it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, then it shouldn't be on the page."
tl;dr no, that's not even remotely close to what I was suggesting.
The special inventory tab was included in patch notes, and the special inventory was "skipped" content.
@Shroom Fonzerelli - Just because something is hard to make look clean does not mean its an excuse to exclude that information.
I agree, I really want to just rename "Skipped Content" into something more politically correct but it would be wrong to add or remove anything to the section until the admins say something decisive and final.
Did you even bother reading the rest of his reply? No matter what you call it, you are referring to things that were not implemented when they were supposed to be. Who decides when they should be added, NA or KR? Saying that something was skipped based on KR will cause more incidents [this thread] to surface.
Yinato, you need not repeat yourself. Everyone in every discussion, including me, you, admins, have agreed that calling something "skipped" is incorrect and is player-opinion. However, we all agree that it is "unreleased", that neither means it will be released or will never be released. The question is whether we will include that on this page or its own page, which is a decision left up to admins, not you nor me. So please stop.
When in the name of Mother Mary who gave birth to Jesus Christ did I ever agree to renaming Skipped Content or that it was a "player opinion".
I wanted that thing gone, totally different from renaming it.
Mikaya wanted that thing gone as well and she's pretty much against any sort of Foreign Content. Unreleased is a different story however.
Kad said herself that she can't think of a good replacement for it and she was mostly up for removal on this page.
Yinato was also up with removal.
I said everyone agreed calling it skipped content is incorrect. I never said everyone agreed it should remain anywhere on the wiki or that it should be renamed. All to anything to a similar effect I said it that we all agree that such content is not released. Not that we should call it "unreleased", just that it is unreleased.
If everyone is in agreement, then why do you keep calling it skipped content? The reason why I'm repeating myself is because, although you say we're all in agreement on the matter, your comments say otherwise. And again, while you say that it's up the admins, you still continue to post why it should be on the page.
I continue to call it Skipped Content because the admins have yet to give it a new name. I sometimes call it Unreleased Content instead of Skipped Content, but that won't make a difference in discussion.
Yea you're right, I stopped and asked Lexis/the Admins to speak up, but you continue to post about this. That being said, if you reply to this, I probably will won't reply back.
He means given patch notes we should elaborate only on what was actually presented. For example a patch with a combat revamp. Simply saying combat revamp is not enough detail, so instead we state many skills have faster load times and added cooldowns. In response to mine, if something unnoted changes, it may be too messy to try to include it in a particular major update, so we should avoid that kind of announcement.
Also never call anything skipped content.
Everything between Gens 1~12 and 14 have so much text followed by even more text in dropdowns. Can't we compress them and make them follow the G16S2~ format?
What exactly do you mean by "compress", and what does the "G16S2~format" have that you want in the rest of the page?
Look at how big this is:
And how unorganized this is:
Compared to how organized this one is:
- The first has text beneath the subheader followed by redundancy in the dropdowns.
- The second has text in dropdowns that randomly spew out information which could be organized like the third one.
- The third has subdivisions in the dropdowns like talent, premium service, generation adjustments, other, etc.
The ones where you utilize your trained squires to assist and fight alongside you? There was even a translated NA Mabinogi Splash Page where you can view the whole thing, plus it's a Lv60+ requirement.
I'm past that level and don't see any mention of it, as a result I'm holding back on rebirthing with one of my four rebirth potions until I'm sure.
Edit: Found some information, after googling a bit, there's a /baltane url that was still saved in my url history but the page is removed, and googling that url brings up a forum thread on it with more info. http://forums.mabinogi.nexon.net/discussion/14335/what-happened-to-the-baltane-mission-teaser
Chain Slash is a two-part update.
This first part is the Scenario with Eiren and the other Aces that introduces the first 10 Chain Slash skills.
The second part is going to come later, and it will include the final 3 Chain Slash skills, as well as add in the Baltane Missions. It seems they accidentally put up the teaser micro-site for the Baltane Mission Update part of the Chain Slash Update and then took it down later. But it's definitely still on its way.
There doesn't seem to be a set date, but it should be sometime fairly soon, perhaps within a week or two.
This place has always been magical to me, I dunno where people get the information really. But anyone who knows the full details for Memento could you update this section? The news post may be a starting point.
I know that this might be nitpicky but isn't the latest patch called "Mabinogi Reborn" (As a followup to Rejuvinogi and Renovation) and not "A Dawn For New Dungeons" ?
I'm not too sure on how to update this without breaking the update section on the landing page so if anyone could kindly do this in addition of removing Reborn from Foreign Content it would be appreciated by at least 1 person.
I might update the presentation of the information in the drop down section later today and make it more compact and straightforward, removing the fluff information from the official website's post and make it similar to the updates above.
http://mabinogi.nexon.net/News/All/1/00IZ9/mabinogi-renovation-archery-preview
Also known as the "Archery Disappointment" patch.
Unfortunately I don't know jack about the new dungeon that's being added. They took out the emblem that was accidentally added in Magic.
"Also known as the "Archery Disappointment" patch."
Not as if any of the others were amazing. Magic just contained 1 very OP skill that shouldn't have made it into the game :/
Unless you mean Inspiration which shouldn't exist at all (since it makes Meditation obsolete and mana management extremely laughable; essentially ridding a drawback), I'm fine with the "elemental trinity" being complete, just when it's not treading on OP territory. Though, Fireball and Snap Cast are kind of brokenly fast, which takes away another of Magic's drawbacks of being "slow but powerful". That said, it still has a lot of lackluster; caps are still in place, Lightning Bolt still sucks, 2-player Magic Fusion gives no incentive to use it, and Meteor is still largely useless outside of being a "stealth" attack and the master title. I'm only thankful that Ice Spear no longer interferes with party play too greatly and Hail Storm being slightly faster (though not really much reason to use because OP Lightning Rod).
Melee was decent since Stomp, Charge, and Final Hit's utility changes (not the massive damage) were nice, but the other changes were mostly moot or ridiculously OP which didn't address melee's problems of being a slow and clunky skillset with multi-aggro issues and party play interference. None of the new skills were necessary; Bash > Smash (which also got nonsensically buffed), Rage Impact > Berserk, and Dual Wield Mastery is just spoon feeding.
Archery pretty much got the short end of the stick of all three. 99% of the changes are completely pointless or unhelpful (while the other two got some decent things), and the skillset is still horribly plagued by aiming and lacklusterness. Final Shot is still laughable like its been since Genesis, as is all of Elf archery. In a nutshell it just gave Giants more love in a profession they're not supposed to excel at and threw in a new skill that's buggy, hard to use, and didn't even remedy archer issues.
So, yeah, Renovation overall sucks. :/
Don't forget why the archery renovation sucks and why FH was made that way!
Because most of archery's issues in NA don't exist in KR and KR has cast speed fix which makes magic even more OP and makes firebolt pretty much outclass FH outside of brionac situations, and even then Firebolt can still crush.
Combo this with the fact that they inherently RUSHED the archery update because they really didn't want to make it after a while and took the alban knight training camp out, worked it to usability, kept how insanely hard it is without thinking "maybe we should make it a tiny bit easier" THEN WENT ON VACATION RIGHT AFTER THE DUE DATE.
Devcat folks.
Obviously I was talking about the skill that you just now called OP - Lighting Rod. It's ridiculous at R1. Inspiration is not OP to me. 50% of mana gained every 3 minutes, it's whatever. If you're in a hard dungeon/SM and spamming you'll still need meditation and/or potions probably.
Also as somebody who's actually used stomp - it's still bad and not really useful. It's far too slow to be helpful when you need it. Rage impact replaces it.
Did you really call Lightning Rod OP? As an end game mage, I don't feel that it compares at all to an end game melee character's Final Hit. I can't solo the Martial Arts tournament's boss round with it and there's at least one video of someone doing that with Final Hit. >_>
One thing I wish they'd fix about magic is the fact that trans makes me WEAKER.
Inspiration can burn in hell. 50% MP every 3 minutes, with literally no drawback whatsoever (Meditation impacts stamina and hunger, Respite has the aftereffect with a longer regeneration time and healing nowhere close to Inspiration's level, etc.), is a very massive amount of MP to regenerate, especially when taking account of all the reduction or regeneration bonuses, most of which had some punishing drawbacks. Why the hell are we now suddenly better than Ladeca, which is the source of all of Erinn's mana?
I only have about 380 Magic Attack, enchantless, reforgeless, etc. doing roughly 10ks uncharged non-crits and nearly 40k fully charged crits with Lightning Rod. Not to mention it can be fired immediately with the press of a button, which is a very huge detachment from typical Magic being "slow and powerful" (even then the time to fully charge it is extremely short), all while besting Hail and Meteor. Right now, Lightning Rod along with Firebolt pretty much centralize the magic tab. That said, Final Hit's power is drastically more absurd.
Clearly the developer on Renovation has no vision or put enough effort, and I don't trust him with the other skillsets.
I know, it's absolutely absurd that magic is now an attractive viable alternative to other more popular skillsets. What were they thinking?
You know, aside from the fact that it required nearly 3 years steady play to reach an endgame potential before talents + weekly rebirth, and you can make significantly more money with a larger playerbase that isn't turned away by such slow character progression.
I for one like lightning rod; it perfectly complements other skills like crisis, allowing for a pretty potent 2 player team in most dungeon/mission scenarios. Sure, you can instantly do 10k, much like snap cast firebolt, or a simple smash; but it's much better (and safer) charged at a group opportunity. It's also very awkward to simply rely on it alone with a 15 second cooldown. Magic still lacks a healthy option for more consistent damage over time, but the very high burst damage is still pretty attractive. Honestly not any worse than bash spam.
Inspiration is likewise welcome. Even without manashield, I burn through mp much faster than I can possibly burn through stamina. Inspiration simply provides more combat endurance for virtually everyone (less potion poison!).
L>Milletian Nerf. L>Massive Monster Buff.
I'm honestly confused with how people are burning MP extremely fast. I only have 1,175 Int and 1k MP, and I'm only losing half my max MP in just halfway through in any Tara Castle Elite mission, but then putting up Meditation, Enduring Melody, and Fantastic Chorus would keep me filled enough to trek through, even before Inspiration's implementation. I even struggled trying to actively drain my MP to train that skill. The only way I can see people lose MP fast is either Spellwalk or Mana Shield.
Honestly I'd rather see a Meditation uncap and/or natural regeneration modified, rather than an identical skill that only seems to exist just to render them obsolete and hugely nullify a mage drawback. Heck I might like to have Mana Evaporation to return because of Inspiration.
Well for one, not everyone is also a bard. They may be useful skills but that doesn't mean everyone is going to have them; the ap struggle is real. Try running through Alby or Ciar Adv HM solo (with or without extra people standing around) or any of those Long tara castles solo, or shadow wizard solo without any musical skills.*(at a high level)
Simply, not everyone is wearing full mana usage reduction, and/or spell books, and/or holy eagle mask, and/or r1 enduring melody/song, and/or mana consumption reduction upgrades. Many people also never use meditation due to the longstanding belief that it increases durability loss and because if they need to switch out of magic, it's quite a slowdown. On the other hand, lots of people, especially if they feel out of depth, will default to using either chaincast firebolt or thunder spam.
I think the universal opinion on archery revamp at least is that it's absolutely awful, lol. The opinions on the other two revamps are a bit mixed.
I'm still of the blunt opinion that:
Not to mention they're afraid of even touching it because KR folks are as adamant that archery is godomodo as folks here are adamant that elf is a "bad race"
Not to mention the Renovation "after patch" only nonsensically buffed Bash, while still leaving Archery as crap.
http://mabinogi.nexon.net/News/Announcements/1/00IZv
Hm, no mention of the Alban Knight dungeon... Also these notes are pretty butchered, like the Close Combat one. :/
http://mabinogi.nexon.net/News/Announcements/1/00IQZ
However, I wouldn't trust Nexon's patch notes. Most of them are completely wrong and/or they state things that already exist since eons ago.
- "Dual Wield Mastery - Allows you to equip two weapons. This skill is automatically learned whenever a weapon is equipped in each hand."
- So, how do we "equip two weapons" when we need to learn this skill?
- "Giant Swing - Cooldown time is now 4 seconds regardless of skill rank."
- 5 seconds, not 4.
- "Final Hit - Attack Speed is increased. Bonus Damage increases at each skill rank."
- Omg, ATTACK SPEED NEVER LEFT THE TEST SERVER!
- "Charge - Using this skill no longer requires Elves and Giants to also equip a shield."
- ... What. Giants could already use shieldless charge. Anyway, 100% false.
- "Counter Attack - If melee weapons are equipped in one or both hands, the character will walk if no shield is equipped."
- Nope, shields have nothing to do with this.
- "Heavy Armor Mastery - Stun resistance attribute has been added to the skill."
- Again, what. It's already had Auto Defense since its implementation.
- "Two-handed Blunt Weapons and Two-handed Axe Weapons are now available to Humans and Elves."
- No. That's only the new weapons; the existing are unchanged.
- Learn Rage Impact - Starting quest given to learn Rage Impact when Counter Attack is Rank 8 or above, and Combat Mastery is Rank 5 or above.
- NINE, not eight.
Although most of these might need to be more thoroughly tested. I'm getting mixed reports in some areas, such as whether monsters or not are affected; Kingofrunes said monster Smash can't debuff, but he also said Cessair's Final Hit doesn't cancel on knockdown anymore.
Does anyone have a rapier? IIRC they're affected by Sword Mastery, but according to a KR interview they don't benefit from any of the changes.
>Alright, have fun
With pleasure.
And though I disagree partially on the no trusterino nixony patch notes, this one is by far the most SLOPPIEST I have seen. There's changes here that sound like mistranslations.
Anyways, pretty much gonna rip your sandbox into the wiki, Already got a few folks who'll love to work on the new enchants as well. Next 100 minutes are gonna be nothing but transfer, setups, and etc.
- Skill Lists
- Stats and Skills
- Some other miscellaneous things (e.g. Bare Hands no longer the basis of Charge's damage).
Thanks for taking care of all this. Less hard work for everyone *cough* Sakura *cough*.
http://mabinogi.nexon.net/News/Announcements/1/00IOE
They may or may not change the name of "Very Hard" difficulty, since KR calls it "Apostle". I'm not entirely sure about the 32 max squad member limit since I haven't seen any KR video show 32 members in a raid, but that's what Kingofrunes told me. Never mind, it's still 16.
Mabiland is just some event so that's obviously excluded.
Rejuvinogi[edit]
Can someone double check all these patch notes to make sure I'm not missing anything?
Bug fixes aren't relevant to patches. They cause unnecessary clutter and are also prone to returning.
http://mabinogi.nexon.net/News/All/1/00IKM
Bye, please burn in hell forever Bot Bomb.
Would Bot Bomb removal warrant a mention on Patches page, under Rejuvinogi Extra? I mean it was updated a while back, and then the community demanded requested its deletion.
Apparently you are now able to remove items from an expired VIP inventory tab. Wasn't mentioned in any patch notes or announcements as far as I'm aware, but I and some guildmates discovered they were able to do this now.
It's no surprise that Nexon loves to exclude important details in the patch notes.
I've also heard while G19 was being tested in KR they also threw in a status icon for Meditation and a search function for Titles. I currently can't access my client at the moment to check if its in NA atm. Never mind, they were excluded...
Adventurer Seals don't expire anymore.Fixed Dyes from Glittering Dye Bottle don't expire anymore.- Puppet and Dual Gun Combo Cards: http://oi60.tinypic.com/9s5j88.jpg http://i58.tinypic.com/2aeqb0h.png http://puu.sh/c6fBR/1347c6b4df.jpg
- Has anyone seen ace, ninja, or hidden?
- Certain homestead items (e.g. Bamboo) now animate and sway. I heard some also got graphical adjustments.
Quite a number of changes that Nexon neglected to announce. Has anyone else noticed other unnanounced changes?
If you reach level 1000 on one character, do the others still get the Beginner Benefits?
Slightly related, why have we never made a page or redirect that fully details Beginner's Benefits?
I only known it exists because I was looking for the character page.
So I will say, no.
Nexon Patch Notes:
- Artifact sale function added
- Appraised/restored artifacts can be sold to NPC shops for Gold and EXP.
- Appraisal can be completed by using Voight's appraisal service or the Artifact Investigation Skill.
- Artifacts cannot be sold to other users.
- Quest/mainstream artifacts cannot be sold.
- Bundled artifacts cannot be sold.
Um... You can sell artifact stuff to any NPC with a shop just like exchanging them to Voight...? So Voight's useless now? Or am I not understanding this correctly...?
EDIT: I sold a bunch of courcle artifacts to Voight's NPC shop, then to Kousai. It gave me gold and exploration EXP on what's listed on the artifact. So, I guess Voight's useless then.
... Apparently I heard that if you NPC an artifact box, you don't get what's inside. So scratch what I said about Voight being useless.
Now that Chapter 6 is out in KR (Divine Knights), I guess we're having this conversation again.
There is no officially announced Chapter 5. There's Chapter 4 and Chapter 6. The term Chapter 5 was never used by DevCAT or any nexon server until recently in an interview with the fifth director. From what I'm told, Chapter 5 is Saga E1+ (as in Generation 17, Shamala, and Nightmare are still Chapter 4) but there is still no evidence of what is a part of Chapter 5 and what isn't. We should avoid definitely categorizing anything as Chapter 5 until we have proof it is a part of Chapter 5 and not Chapter 4.
If anyone wants to put this under New Beginnings (because I can't):
—Pets |
Since players no longer need most character cards, does that affect pets and are able to rebirth free or do they still need ^?
Uh...even if it did apply, what good would rebirthing a pet to the same kind do, aside from maybe optimizing its stat gain?
I'd like my production pets to not have 10mp from when I wasn't strong enough to level them well, and when the exp curve was steeper. I've also gotten into the habit of getting each pet to at least level 60 before they hit age 2 now that I can destroy anything, but leveling old pets is still pointless besides skill ranks. I'd like my pets to be at least somewhat trained up instead of having like 10 strength.
It's still a pretty big reason, but other than that it being small without a pet age potion would be something.
When someone says "aside from x", it usually means that they already acknowledge "x" as an exception, so you don't have to bother bringing it up.
But when that is all there really is, what do you expect? I see it as more that you were down playing the point. Like asking why use weapons beside the increased damage output. Doesn't seem like a real question to me. All that's really left is just opinions. Also the topic is complete, so let's just end here/after you post a response or something.
Yes, and that is why I ignored that exception to better point out the importance that would come from rebirthing your pet. Otherwise, why would you even bother posting at all? This isn't really a forum to just talk.
You also uh 'contributed' to this discussion by basically repeating by Yinato said.
Yes, basically. However, I touched on the finer details that would perhaps maybe answer better to someone who would be actually wondering why you would want to rebirth a pet if it became free, and put in some of my personal opinions on the matter. I'd also like to point out to infodude that he could have easily checked his question himself.
Then of course, as you said, this is not a forum.
But you sure have made it so.
1. You answered 2 rhetorical questions.
2.
^Me saying you can't free rb pets, and stating that there's only 1 real reason to rb (and it'd be only once unless you repeatedly mess up levelling your pet).
3.
^"I'd like my production pets to not have 10mp . . . I'd like my pets to be at least somewhat trained up instead of having like 10 strength."
ಠ _ಠ
I'm done here.
Yes, the thread ended on my very first post. The question was answered. Then you make a comment for no reason that I felt compelled to answer anyway just in case. So, I'm sorry for that, but your third point here missed the point of where I said I gave an opinion to help answer the question, even if you weren't really asking it. I was trying to add a little friendliness/personal touch to the discussion with that part. And Nise, your comments that don't really have any effect on the thread besides adding unneeded hostility hasn't helped either. Last post by me for this topic.
I hope you understand that was me asking you to not turn talk pages into a forum thread.
If you wanted to avoid that then you could have simply ignored Yinato's comment, as you did not have any other answer what so ever.
If you really want to get into specifics, then "It doesn't let me rebirth my pet for free" isn't an answer since you're only talking about your own experiences and there could be other reasons why you can't rebirth your pets. Just saying. (not going to bother pointing out all the flaws with the other parts of your reply)
Ignoring the gibberish you guys are rambling on, if pets still incapable of free rebirthing, it should be mentioned for clarity.
Meru even if I was able to check it out, I wouldn't be able to add it in, hence the thread.
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