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Chapter 5
This needs to be confirmed now. Is G18~ officially called C5?
the mabinogi team has stated in a few places (IDR where, might be overseas) that g18 and mabinogi zero are entirely different types of storyline releases. g18 is the last generation update we're gonna get, and its in episodes, not seasons... and i suspect the next patch maint to introduce new content will either be with the gunner episode, or with mabinogi zero, the start of the non generation patch updates
as such i doubt calling it chapter 5 is accurate at all
If g18 is the last generation then that means the mystery belvast place will come this generation o:
Chapters are moreso used to indicate different development teams, than story arcs. Since some storylines even overlap.
Where's your proof? Where the hell did it say G18 and onwards is Chapter 5?
If you're going to be this technical, then you should drop "Generation 17" and "Generation 18". Both are unofficial terms, coined by the fans and players, just like "Chapter 5".
devCAT/Nexon dropped the "Generations" once we hit the "Classics" Update.
Good point, perhaps we SHOULD drop them? I vote for dropping the "Chapter" headers and renaming G18 just "The Saga: Iria".
Don't care... I really do not care...
But how are we going to name the line of saga quests?
Instead of "Generation 18: Episode 1 - Fate's Origin: The Demon", how about "The Saga: Iria - Episode 1 - Fate's Origin: The Demon"?
Oneris does sound like a colon cancer, but meh.
There is a dash in the sage between the EP and the name.
Hm there's also a hyphen between Saga and Iria as stated in the Journal...
What about Shamala and Nightmare? It does have that generation marker if I'm not mistaken.
Move it back to Sidequests?
That was moved to its own page for a different reason. I agree with removing Generation 17 from its page name but not moving it back to Sidequests.
Mm, then what do we put above it on the main page? Saga, even though its actually not a part of it?
Personally, I vote for removing Chapter 1, 2, 3, 4, from the main page and just putting them by themselves. > .>
I'm thinking more like potential way 1 but only the generation tag taken away from G17 and G18, unless we find evidence that it's not used in earlier gens like G16, or we decide to remove mentions of generations altogether.
Generations up to 16 are definitely canon; they're in the icons and descriptions for completing each generation in the Journal, and most people know them as g1-g16. After that, the Journal just refers to them as Saga, so Potential way 2 looks better to me.
But G17 isn't the Saga either, and G18 isn't going to be the only Saga of Iria (or so NX KR claims).
Okay, G17 is Canon, according to patch notes, and it ends at Shamala Nightmare: Prologue.
G18 does not exist, and everything is Sagas from this point on, am I correct?
The very, very, very beginning patch notes calls it "G1S1" and stuff along the lines until Pioneers of Iria.
The Strategy Guide calls the Dark Knight storyline "G3" instead of its actual name.
If Nexon KR said that generations end after the zero update, that means that g18 really is officially g18 as well.
But they implied it when they said zero is the end of generations. They implied that g18 is g18, and they never said or implied that g18 was not g18, so I think g18 is closer to being canon than the absence of g18.
From what I'm getting, he seems to be saying that since 'Generations' don't end until the Zero update, and SAGA is before the Zero update, then Saga is a Generation.
But that doesn't mean it is actually G18. It could be Generation:Saga for all we know. I believe the counter-proof that Saga is not G18 is that the patch notes for Shamala- Nightmare: Prologue are labeled G17S4 even if in-game it wasn't called G17, but Saga-Iria is just labeled Saga-Iria, meaning they didn't even label it G18 themselves in the patch notes.
They leave things out of the patch notes all the time. Just because it's not labeled doesn't mean it's not there.
Like Pyrus is saying, you're now claiming that Nexon announcements must be incomplete/flawed/mistaken in some way, in which case throws everything we could possibly know about Mabinogi into question.
Using your logic, how could we be sure C1-C4 aren't Volume 1, and Saga is Volume 2?
"claiming"? This is common knowledge. Half of Nexon's announcements leave something important out or are mistaken in some other way, and until a couple years ago, most of them weren't even in decent English. This throws nothing into question that wasn't already in question; this is a wiki, not a collection of Nexon's patch notes. The information we have on the game system, skills, items, monsters, races, quests, missions, dungeons, etc. is from in-game testing/research, the mines, or foreign wikis who got the info primarily from in game testing and the mines. Almost nothing on this site comes from Nexon's website except event dates and maintenance times, and maintenance times have often been wrong.
That's an entirely different arguement. It's one thing to say:
- We have proof something was added, even though it's not listed.
It's another thing to say:
- We have proof something they listed is incorrectly labeled.
^As far as I see, there is no proof yet.
I'm not sure what you mean. Proof it was added? Updates are still classified in the generation/season system for now, and the big changes make it obvious that it's the next one. Also, not that we need to, but we've also confirmed the number with a pickaxe.
The official evidence might not be explicit, but it's there, and the shady evidence is precise. What more reason do we need to call this what it is?
The whole point of this thread is that it shouldn't be called C5 (or G18 for that matter) just because it was obtained with a pickaxe. By the same logic, Shamala and Nightamre are an entirely different chapter than the Saga.
I agree that it should still be called C4(at least until we get more information). However it's definitely G18, that wasn't obtained with a pickaxe; it was confirmed with a pickaxe, but we already knew without it.
Assuming we didn't yet get it from a pickaxe, and we JUST confirmed it with a pickaxe later, how do we know so? We just assumed it would be G18 instead of G17S4. What's in question here seems to be the legitimacy of mining.
We know because major updates are new generations. Big update = next number unless Nexon specifies otherwise(clearly states a different number that makes sense).
Also, saga has it's own quest tab, another very clear sign that it's at the very least a new gen.
The legitimacy of mining isn't in question. If it was, half the info on every skill and item page would be gone.
With that logic, Field Boss Raids have their own quest tab, so they're G19.
So, we're just assuming it's G18 and basing confirmation on data mining of things that aren't visible ingame? At least things like splash radius are visible within game, just not in the same form.
My point is, just because it's mined, doesn't mean it's accurate. Have you seen how many things they misnamed? Even compared to the KR official english name.
Raids don't have a long story or a long series of quests in a specific order, same thing for event tab.
The assumption is that, until the distributor changes the labeling style, part 18 comes after part 17. And we would never have gotten numbers that precise for splash without mining; monster hitbox sizes vary, you can't be certain the monsters are exactly where you think they are with this game's lag, and we don't have many people on the NA server who are actually willing to do all that work to test these things.
When something that was mined seems to be wrong, it's usually because the miner copied the wrong value(like when there was an edit war AR summary chart cause some people were looking at stam needed instead of stam used). There may be some things in the files that don't match the server, but generation number is not one of them. Devcat picked that label, and nexon has no reason to mess with it. It's not flavor text that might be reworded to sound better in English, and it's not a number that effects combat that could need to be nerfed. It's the version label, and it's not going to change from g18 to g15s11.2 for no reason, and even if it did, we should assume it didn't unil they say so, cause we have no reason to believe the gen # is anything but 18.
Sorry, but I think we're starting to confuse "Generation Updates" and "Generation Quests".
The mainstream quests released in the g2 update were called g2 mainstream, g3 was g3, etc. how is 18=18 such a stretch?
That's just it, there shouldn't have to be a stretch at all. It should either be explicitly stated or not. And in this case it is not so it shouldn't be. I'm usually overly conservative but I just feel this is right, there isn't evidence of the Saga being called G18. For all we know, each episode of the saga could be a separate generation quest chain and the saga could be G18-27, if that makes sense.
This isn't something like the Iria update where they threw in 3 gens worth of updates in one, there is no ambiguity about what number this G is at all. If you don't want info that's not explicitly mentioned by Nexon, why not just stop using the wiki and rely on Nexon's vague Engrish press releases for all our information?
Nexon KR said everything up to zero is still gens, so if we're using the generation labels at all, this needs one too. Even if we hadn't looked up what Devcat calls it, we'd know what it was because 18 makes the most sense. The story update is too big to be a season, individual updates are too short to assume they're all gens. Sure, they could change their minds and decide to call it g18-27, but until they say they did, we have to assume that whatever makes the most sense is correct.
Your last sentence can also be used to counter-argue, I just don't see why there is evidence it is or isn't G18.
How? Which number makes more sense after 17 than 18? pi? e? negative google?
NX KR said this is still a numbered G. Updates of this size with this much new story are, by default, new Gs, and the previous one was 17. Even if we ignore the very specific, straightforward label in the file, there is enough evidence it's g18, and no evidence it's not.
You still haven't really provided any evidence that the STORYLINE (not update) is G18, that's all I want.
This piece of the story is released during G18, and is clearly a mainstream quest chain. That's more than enough until there's an official announcement saying it's not g18.
That doesn't change the fact that it's a large quest chain continuing the mainstream story.
-_-...really? Okay, IIRC, actors in Mabi are animated pieces of paper. Was he a cardboard cutout when he appeared in saga? Before episode 1, was there a cutscene of Ruari in the beauty shop waiting room, being lectured by Manus on the risks involved in an operation to downgrade to 2D?
Damn it. I knew it! It couldn't have been that everyone from Avon, Hamlet and Romeo & Juliet were human!! They were cardboard cutouts all along!
Other way around, you're supposed to prove it is before prove it isn't. And as much as I'd like to rest believing it is officially G18 we need evidence first, regardless of subject.
I have read your post, I see no evidence. If you really feel the need to reiterate it, paraphrase it and reply to this, then.
Large sections of mainstream story are broken up into Generations, which are numbered, usually based on the order they come out. This is a large section of the mainstream story. The last piece was 17, which implies that this one is 1 + 17. Since nothing was explicated, we have to go with what's implied.
Not really. The the amount of questing in all 10 episodes implies generation, not season.
You could say it's almost as good a reason to call it G17s5-s15; but they start at 1, implying it's the equivalent of season 1; 15 is a lot more seasons than you'd expect; and so far, generation quests have been released during their respective generations(the g2 story wasn't released in g3).
VERY good point Legiathan.
I still so no evidence Sozen. . . You're just making assumptions based on previous patches.
I'm using previous patches to point out a pattern that should be obvious. My only assumption is that nothing has changed, because I have yet to see evidence that that it did.
As I said, evidence it is G18 before evidence it isn't is necessary. Your entire argument is based on wishful continuity.
... continuity is the default case. How about you give me some evidence that something has changed before you ask for evidence that nothing happened?
That's just not how it works, just because you can't prove something doesn't give you leeway to turn the table upside down. Innocent until proven guilty, evidence before faulty evidence. You need to prove it is G18 first, and I really do hope you can because I don't like holes like this but as far as I am concerned that's just it, Just The Saga: Iria, no Generation 18 tacked on.
As I said, the burden of proof isn't on me because you have not proved this is Generation 18 and there is nothing suggesting so besides speculation based on past updates.
Like i said, I'm not the one with something to prove because I'm not the one arguing that something happened/changed. Chunks of divided into Generations, That's how this system works by default. Until they say they've changed that system, we don't need proof that they didn't.
And as I said, nothing "changed". It's not of the same thing, and you need evidence that it is. Otherwise I think it is reliable to call the Puppeteer sidequest Generation 17.
The puppeteer thing was kinda short, had very few cutscenes/RPs, and I didn't notice any references to other stories, so i never bothered to argue for this, but it is a quest chain(several that can't be done out of order because finishing 1 is how you get the next) with a significant amount of story, so it would fit better with mainstream stuff as g17s2 than with solitary quests like Duncan's Call.
by that logic, the mabinogi classic update should have been a new generation too... or 3 new generations, in which case, we would have had it go from g16 to g17, g18, and g19 being the new g1,2, and 3.. and lets not talk about the alchemist questline revamps
so it would be more along these lines?
and while thats all well and good, i think itd be nice to get a nexon employee's opinion, do we have any way of doing that officially?
Let me restate, Shamala and Nightmare are NOT a part of G18 or the Drama, and they're not proven to be G17 yet either.
Also, the wiki is not associated with Nexon and they don't want to associate with the wiki.
Oneris, nothing in your posts proved anything other than time of release which were not at question. . . Infodude is correct, the puppeteer quest chains deserves to be labeled as G17 no less than Shamala and Nightmare. And the Fighter quest chain is also a part of G16, at that logic.
So you're saying that G17 is another 'empty' update like G4, G5, and G6. Content only, with no actual storyline.
In that case, I feel it's a bit unfair to Shamala and Nightmare, which Nexon made so much effort to be noticed and completed, that they are placed in such an obscure page as Sidequests under even the fished-up 'note in a bottle' sidequests.
I am proposing a separate page for such prologues and sidestories on a separate page, Mainstream Sidequests, to emphasize their importance.
Uhh...the only storyline present in C2 (G4 5 6) is...well Elves are revealed to have a lost power that they once had and the same thing applies to giant. That storyline is exclusive to them.
Wait, so you're saying the Falcon and Beast Trans Quests are G4-6? Ohhh, that makes a lot of sense now...
Oh well, too bad they got retconned.
Yep...to a human's point of view, it's nothing special other than new lands to explore. Elves and Giants on the other hand, go out to "re-explore" the past and learn of ancient powers that they once possessed during the Giant-Elven Wars. No, they didn't get retconned. You can still access it, but since G2 is WAY easier...yeah...older characters can still access the old trans quest and may do it the hard way.
The only thing the new G2 incorporated was that Elves and Giants had a hidden power that needs to be unlocked through the ciar trial.
I fail to see how Shamala or Nightmare are any more important than any other sidequest other than they give AP for rewards. In fact, now that the NA version doesn't require AP like the KR version, I don't see reason for it to be separate from the Sidequests page (like I originally proposed solely based on that fact).
And if we were to put a mainstream sidequests, what would even go in here? Only other sidequest I can think of relevant to any generation story wise is the underground waterway, as all the rest are side stories or completely irrelevant (like The violet, The Honey Drink, Golvan, Ascon). And if we DO move all those unimportant sidequests there, what then will be left of the Sidequests page?. . .
Exactly. Any of the sidequests pertaining to Mainstream NPC, like all the ones you listed will be moved to the new page.
And all of the remaining ones could be take out of spoiler tags, since none of them are anything past a single quest in length. The page is already kinda messy as it is, with spoiler tags and labels and quests not in spoiler tags and qualifiers for the mainstream quests and etc.
Personally, I'd prefer a separate page for each set of mainstream sidequests, formatted in the way that Shamala and Nightmare is currently formatted, but that may be too split up for your tastes.
PS: Also, I removed Age quests from that page because they're already in Beginner Quests
I think you mistook my bastaridzation as evidence they were relevant to the mainstream storyline which is untrue. . .
My point is, if we consider even those mainstream, then what ISN'T mainstream? And if we ONLY consider Underground Waterway, Shamala, and Nightmare mainstream, that's very few. I vote for moving Shamala and Nightmare back to sidequests, as the only reason I even considered moving it because it was a prerequisite of the Saga, which is incorrect.
I'm fine with giving them each separate quests provided we also gives quests, like those to obtain skills, their own pages.
Also, did you move the Age quests to beginner quests? Or did you just remove it altogether?
I meant essentially any quest on that page that is labeled under G#: XXXXX Sidequests. They're all of pretty long length, unlike the other quests on that page. Maybe the g15 one could be tacked onto...something...it's too short for its own page...whatev, but everything else is of a pretty good length. Have a single page for all of the sidequests for a generation or something.
Also, did you even look at the Beginner Quests (Human Uladh)#Coming-of-Age_Ceremony before you reverted my change? If none of the others in that list are sidequests, why is that one specifically?
For the aging quests, I was looking at Special:Contributions/Oneris, I apologize.
My point is, if we move all quests in released in chapter x to its own page, with aging quests gone, all there is left is notes in bottles (which should get its own item page to be honest) and four minor quests. Which to be honest, I think Kousai's Call is a part of G7.
If Duncan's Call level 250 quest is lumped in with Beginner Level and Aging, maybe we could dump the rest minus the fishing bottles and Kousai's Call in the same category?
Or we could take the Action quests from all the pages, and lump those in with these as 'Other', since they're all the same, except for their availability to giants. I really don't know...
I'd be okay for moving Kousai's call to G7 and the other quests minus the bottles to beginner quests, but I'd much rather:
- A: Remerge Shamala/Nightmare with Sidequests
or
- B: Give every single quest chain its own page. And I think it would be better to organize it by released in same chapter, not released in same generation. . . But again, own page for each would be better, under a common category.
if youre gonna do that, maybe i could request that you do so in a manner similar to saga-iria's episodes?
a page that lists them, and has a link to each in the list
if you mean this page Sidequests i think you misunderstood what i meant.. i mean a page thats got organisation like the saga page Generation 18. rather than a mess of quests all on the same page, it would be a set of links, all to separate pages, each of which would be a separate side quest
I dunno, I like putting it all after the main generation it was released with, so Andras's Story and the Violets would be put after G9, as an alternative link at the top, so on the G9 page, you get a link at the top to the next generation, G10, and another one for G9 Sidequests.
No, anything, ANYTHING is better than for example, violet quest chain being on the G9 page. I HATE that and it just makes no sense at all. . . What is the logic behind that? That's like saying the destiny page should be on the G13 page.
G9 was a prerequisite for that quest, so those 2 quest chains are kinds linked. That's also why I'm not against calling Shamala mainstream.
So, to get rain casting, G10 is a prerequisite. The skill is now a part of the mainstream? I don't see how quest would differ in role than a skill in this kind of scenario.
Isn't getting raincasting an integral part of G10 that you couldn't skip even if you wanted to? I thought it was always part of the mainstream, like life drain.
pretty much this, yes, really bad example there, a better example of his point would be the quest to get shock up to rank F
I'd say that while shock itself is a Mainstream Skill, the Shock rN->rF quest is closer to the old Paladin Passive Defense quest, in that it's triggered only after the main Generation is over, and is tied more closely to the skill itself than the Generation, ergo, it would be grouped under Skill Quests more than Generation Sidequests.
Luckily, we don't need to worry about it, because the Shock rF quest fits nicely on the Shock page.
I think the Main difference between the Shock rF and old Paladin Passive Defense quest versus the Puppeteer and Fighter and Shamala quests is that the Shock and PPD quests were focused around getting the skills, while Puppeteer and Fighter and Shamala were focused around a backstory and the skills were mere rewards for completion of quests. In effect, the Sidequest chains themselves would change none even if all of the skill rewards were removed.
I'd say we move those pages to its own and have the Gen pages link to them. I mean, its been done for Paladin PD and Dark Knight Quest.
I'll be fine if we do this:
- Move each sidequest to its own page.
- Use the current sidequests page as disambiguation, like the Saga page.
- ONLY link sidequests that need a mainstream quest before hand in the mainstream page.
- Like you would link to "Andras' Story" in the G9 page because G9 is a requirement, but not "Grave with Violets placed on Top", because it is irrelevant to the story and completion of G9, nor does it need G9 as a requirement.
Above is assuming you specifically say they are irrelevant to the Generation quest in question.
Okay, so here is what is established/what I think:
- There is no Generation 18 as far as the storyline is concerned. The update is G18 but the Saga storyline is not, and Shamala/Nightmare are not G17.
- The Saga Page should remain a disambiguation, just not labeled as Generation 18. G18 can still redirect to it to avoid confusion.
- NO sidequest should go on a Generation page, at most we can reference that you can start x sidequest at x point of a Generation quest. If you can start a sidequest independently of a generation quest, it does not deserve a mention on that generation quest's page.
- Sidequests page should not be removed but should be changed.
Here is what we have to vote on:
- All Sidequests get readded to the Sidequests page, and Shamala/Nightmare is demoted since it is not a requirement of G18 as previously thought.
- Or the Sidequests Page turns into a disambiguation page, similar to the Saga Page, and EVERY sidequest gets its own page (its either all or none), with the exception of the aging quests and etc that are considered beginner quests.
- Note in the bottle should go on the note in bottle's item page. If its quests are named differently than the item, they should be redirected to the Note in Bottle page.
What we're iffy on is the layout of the newmenu table on the front page, discuss the above (for newmenu, scroll down in the thread.)
Most of the sidequest stuff looks like they could be moved elsewhere, but keep the page just to link to it, perhaps?
As for newmenu, either we have Saga header or put The Saga: Iria under Chapter 4?
Why am I still watching this...that aside, and my stupid jetlag (;-;), I still suggest to place sidequests that relates to the completion of the generation to be either linked onto the same page (i.e. Andras's past) or at least linked else where so it is not lumped into that...sidequest page. It's hard enough to look for it to begin with and sidequest is such a broad term..
As was explained in this following bullet mentioned above:
- NO sidequest should go on a Generation page, at most we can reference that you can start x sidequest at x point of a Generation quest. If you can start a sidequest independently of a generation quest, it does not deserve a mention on that generation quest's page.
We're not saying it should go on a Generation page. We're saying it should go on its own page, but be linked from the Generation page.
By not mentioning the quest at all, how is anyone going to know it even exists? God knows how many non-editors even know of the existence of pages for keywords, much less keyword-linked sidequests. I mean, 'Grave with Violets' isn't even mentioned on Perrick's page, so if it were taken off the oh-so-cluttered Sidequests page and barred from being linked to on the G9 page, it would quite literally (and yes, I'm using that correctly) disappear from the knowledge of the rest of the wiki users.
I was just repeating an earlier line, but okay so lets link to the Commerce page on G15. Just saying, players not knowing about a feature is at fault of advertizing it on the main page, not including/mentioning it on a irrelevant page.
It was never mentioned that we ever considered delinking it form the Sidequests page. Just that it should either be given its own page that the sidequests page links to (if one quest gets its own page, they all deserve one), or all of the sidequests should remain on the sidequests page. But good point, I'll try to add violets to Pierrick's page later.
Are you talking about the Sidequests or Raincasting? Because the rainmaker dungeon you run for that skill introduces Possessed Cai as a villain, with is supposed to be a revelation in-story.
If you're talking about Shamala and Nightmare Generation Sidequests etc, then I'm with you.
Sidequests.
That poses a problem: As Sozen said, the logos have c1/c2/c3.
I don't care if they're organized under chapters or not, the Chapter subheader just makes it the list unnecessarily longer. (And I'm probably a hypocrite because I believe I added those there.)
On the front page or the patches page? Front's pretty stretched out thanks to skills and those sub classification of weapons.
C1 and C2 could probably be listed somewhere in the archives of Nexon's announcements...
Kevin you know that icon right next to the quest? Yeah that.
What happened to the C4 one before?
On a related note: where did people even come up with the concept of "chapters" in mabi?
Probably from translating foreign wikis. Nexon pretty much confirmed that chapters are an official thing when they replaced the quest scroll logos for mainstream stuff in the quest window with the book logo saying c1/c2/c3. There were more examples of nexon NA talking about chapters during 2 and 3, but i don't remember exactly where right now.
On a similar note, DevCAT in Nexon Korea said starting Zero there will be no more generations, there will never be a chapter 5 or G19.
Also, I would like some hard evidence, it saying chapter 5 somewhere ingame or in data, or at least Nexon saying Chapter 5 or indicating that it's en entirely new team (not just one or two fires/new hires) before we readd Chapter 5 to G17 and/or G18.
Oh okay. I just thought it was weird that devCat would have an NA branch or any other for that matter.
I... agree with Kevin here. I wouldn't want debates and arguments and whatnot to stretch out again... This one had so many replies to it...
In my opinion, unless we're specifically sending this to DevCAT and they respond, I don't think we should consider it. If it is JUST NA Nexon, I'd rather not take their advice without a grinder.
I'm not going to read the wall of text, have we come to a decision?
I...think?
So far, I think we've ((probably just me)) concluded the following
- Delete all mention of 'Chapter 5' and replace with 'The Saga - Iria'
- Shamala and Nightmare is not G17 but a Sidequest Prequel
- Does that mean it goes under Saga? Kinda a grey zone here.
- Kousai's Call on the Sidequest Page goes to G8
- Duncan's Call goes to Aging and Level Quests in Beginner Quests, not sure where exactly, maybe copied over all races' pages.
- All the Generation Sidequests are moved into individual pages called G#-Sidequests and placed as an alternate link after its Generation in the {{Generation}} tag, and/or linked after the main Generation, like the old Paladin PD and Dark Knight Quests.
- Bottled Note Quests are moved into own page?
- The Advancement Arena quests are deleted because they're already listed on the Advancement Arena page?
- The Sidequests Page is used as disambiguation for those moved quests?
Mind you, more than half the stuff on this list is probably still in debate somewhere in this thread, so I have no idea...
Implemented in G8 (I think), you get during G7 (or before since you actually have to activate it...) so that if you want to, you may skip to 8.
Shamala and Nightmare being a part of the Saga doesn't make sense since it was released before the Saga came out. I'd be more comfortable if we used "C# Sidequests" instead of "G# Sidequests" because G# would create more pages and would confuse people. Like some sidequests were released in G14 but can be completed after G13. And I think Shamala/Nightmare belongs in C4 Sidequests.
I would kinda like having long quests like Golvan and Ascon and Underground Waterway etc to have their own page, since they're already pretty long by themselves. Letsee...
- Andras Story: Must complete G9 to do, place after G9
- Grave with Violets: Keyword start, Gives backstory on Cai and Lena, place after G9 or on C3 sidequest page,
- Honey Drink: Keyword Start, Place on C3 Sidequest page
- Corrupt Alchemist: Optional during G9 start, or Keyword start, maybe place on either G9 or C3 sidequest, with a link to the other?
- Underground Waterway: place after G11
- Golvan: I think I got this after finishing R+J, place after G14
- Ascon: place somewhere before G15 as it is referenced in G15. For continuity's sake, I'd prefer after G14 as a kind of prequel to G15.
- Day of Liberation: Too short to put by itself, but there's nothing else on the C4 sidequest page, tack onto end of G15? or dump on the Belvast/Kinu/Admiral Owen page, with link to other
- Rush of Love: To long for C4 sidequest page, Guess it goes on its own after G16
- Puppeteer: Same as Rush of Love.
- Shamala and Nightmare: place after G16, but on its own without being grouped into G16
How does this look?
I'd rather have no page than place ANY sidequest on a generation page, that is the worst case scenerio imo. But I'm fine with them being on the main page like that, but Shamala and Nightmare are in the same position as Puppeteer and Rush of Love, not with greater priority.
They're not on a generation page, they're in between two, on a separate page, so you'd get on a G9 page an option to go to G10, or G9: Andras, or G9: Violets.
Honestly, I have little to no idea what to do with Puppeteer and Rust of Love. They're skill based quest chains and aren't tied to the mainstream, but have a strong story and are too long to go on a C4 sidequest page, and Rush of Love is credited in the journal, so obviously they're important. Would you prefer they not be grouped with any generation, and be put on the same level of importance as Shamala and Nightmare?
I'd rather, on the newmenu template, make a new column for sidequests and place all sidequests there, with no gen/chapter labels.
How about we put a section called "Sidequests" under Saga?
So like:
Mainstream Quests
- Not copypasting them all.
- Sagas
- Iria
- Sidequests
- Stuff and stuff?
Hmm, create and example of one under and one to the side and lets see how long/wide the table gets in an example of it on the main page.
Either of those ways would be okay, but what I don't like in that example is
- The Sagas
- Iria
So far there is only one Saga, and why are they separate?
Where else are we supposed to put it? Chapter 4?
If they do plan to continue the story without Gens, it'll probably be with Sagas.
Just thought I'd say that those side quests for puppet/fighter require you to equip a skill. It's essentially a skill quest chain, not a storyline based and there is no relation of the storyline whatsoever. Also I'd have to agree with Oneris on the whole Andras, Golvan and other things. Since it takes place directly towards completion of a generation, and it is part of the story, it would make sense to put it on the same page with a label saying "Post-Generation X." Same with DK quest e-e.
Oh woops..I just now realized that...uhh yeah I meant equip a weapon to initiate the skill chain...derp. You know what I meant. Though technically, equiping the weapon for the first time is like equipping a skill so...I'm not even gonna go into all the technicalities.
That doesn't solve shit. Generations and chapters are official, only Generation 18 nor Chapter 5 aren't.