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Unreleased Content

Fragment of a discussion from Talk:Patches
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This thread is stupidly long (and just flat out stupid).

  1. Using loaded words like "censorship" won't get you anywhere. I recommend you stop using the word.
  2. I don't think vandalism is a very large burden, and I think it more often happens for reasons unrelated to Skipped Content (tm). I don't consider this a valid point of argument in this thread.
  3. Stop making content-free, crappy posts.

Here is my non-vote as a semi-objective, semi-ignorant (read: useless) opinion from someone who doesn't play this game anymore: The Patches page should not include information about other regions. It should only have content available to NA. That means removing Skipped Content (tm) as well as the current patch numbers at the top, which are incomplete and formatted slightly inconsistently as well. I'm not so convinced that the content needs to be flat out removed, but it should be on another page. One possibility for surfacing the page is to put a banner like the incomplete/cleanup banners that hides the link to the page unless the user clicks something saying they understand that the content may never appear on NA, in the same vein as a spoiler box.

Either way, I doubt this group of people will resolve this any time soon, so this may be a decision made by the staff.

Saiyr (talk)12:22, 27 May 2014

I use the word censorship because that is what it is, I cannot think of another 1-word phrase to describe deliberate hiding of information.

I could agree with your non-vote opinion. As Rydian said, we could have a page like "Unreleased Content" or "Patches/Unreleased Content" and with a link from the Patches page that is only clickable if you accept a prompt, I could write up something along those lines. Though I'm not sure how I'd be able to write one on the page itself if people go directly to the page and not from the Patches page. We might be able to do so if we treat it like a spoiler box.

Kapra - (Talk)12:39, 27 May 2014

I like the wording of Wikipedia's article on censorship:

Censorship differs from editorial selection. For example, a publisher cannot usually publish all books presented to it, and a library cannot usually contain all books published. Consequently, they choose what to accept, either for its potential profitability, in the case of a for-profit book publisher, or according to its materials collection policy, in the case of a library.

In this case, it would be considered editorial selection because it's an explicit choice to narrow down the category of information to accept to avoid confusion and/or misinformation. You may be of the opinion that there's no such thing as too much information, but I would disagree strongly and be completely baffled if you took a hard stance on that.

Whether or not this information is too much is up for discussion, but I won't waste time arguing whether or not there's such a thing as too much information. Calling it censorship simply reinforces your opinion to keep the content using a loaded word with obviously negative connotations, which will just further annoy people who disagree with you. These people want to deliberately hide regional patch content on this wiki in the same way they want to hide the birthday of Abraham Lincoln (yes, an extreme example); they simply don't see it as relevant.

Saiyr (talk)13:33, 27 May 2014

I believe there can be too much information in one place. For example, if on the Magnum shot page we describe how to open your inventory, how to obtain a bow and how to obtain an arrow, how to equip a bow then an arrow. I would consider that too much information. But if we had a page specifically for explaining how the interface worked, specifically for saying how to obtain and use items, I do not think that is too much information. Almost everything has a place in my opinion, so long as it is not incorrect or badly worded information. It doesn't have to be long and it doesn't have to be short, but I do not think there is a reason something should not be somewhere if it does not violate the policy and there is room and people who are willing to offer their time to provide the information.

Kapra - (Talk)13:42, 27 May 2014

Why don't we just go ahead and do that? Just make a branch page from patches with a link to "Other Versions" and we can all fight about keeping that page there; it already takes far too long to load even this thread. As it is, version number is highly irrelevant because it basically just counts how many times they've changed the game, which often includes bug fixes. Then the "Patches" page will only contain information about NA patches (which it should). A page designed to list our patches doesn't need to do anything more than that and I'm certain we can all agree. Then those who like to compare can go ahead and take the effort to look at the other page which is out of sight.

Shroom Fonzerelli (talk)13:35, 27 May 2014

Because many of us find it irrelevant to have a page filled with content unrelated to NA Mabi.

Nise Panda (talk)14:33, 27 May 2014

On the flip side, many do find it relevant to have some cursory information on other regions. If it's on a page you never see, it's not so much different than having Vindictus info on a userpage. (Although I grant you this enters a slippery slope of "how much is too much") I find total disallowing to be too extreme when it comes to providing information.

Shroom Fonzerelli (talk)14:45, 27 May 2014

Assuming for the moment this information is relevant to Mabinogi, there are people willing to provide this information, it does not break the policy, and there are people willing and wanting to read this information, why would we deny a contributor to write this information?

Kapra - (Talk)14:50, 27 May 2014

I'm losing track of what post goes to what anymore.

Imbored (talk)15:25, 27 May 2014

If you're confused, just reply to the initial post and it will make a new pyramid bracket at the bottom, and we'll just continue the conversation from down there if you want.

Kapra - (Talk)15:38, 27 May 2014