Color Coding

is the color coding necessary?

Ideally, yes. All it's for is to make the tables standout more and separate one table from the other since there's only a small space with the Skill category separating them.

Not really, especially since it takes up coding and the tables are already separated by type.
Edit: (Noticed a post while I was writing.) We could fix that if we uniform color the tables then put them in different tabs with the Tab Template.

It was suggested that we could make the tables collapsible instead, but I think the tabs would be a better idea.

Do you mean having the skill tables display on separate tabs? If so, then I think a work-around is needed to have tables properly display in tabs if added directly to the page (Unless you plan on just adding them through transclusion).

Why tabs? Then you'd have to click to see other skill types. Scrolling is better than clicking any day.

At minimum, I'm suggesting that each table only have the colored backgrounds for the skill names. Having every cell colored is unpleasant.

All you asked was if the color coding was necessary in the beginning. It would make more sense to only have a single column colored as opposed to a whole table. You could technically just replace the skill names with the actual skill icons itself and have a hoverbox that displays the skill name/redirects upon being clicked if you really wanted to get rid of the colors altogether.

Er...I just looked at the coding for the page and there's a lot of redundant coding. I'm going to edit it so that if it is decided later on that only the skill name column is to be coloured, then it'll be a lot easier. I'm going to be applying these changes to pretty much all of the skill tables.

approx. -7000 bytes from the giant skill list, -7000 from the elf list and -8000 from the human list.

I just finished with cleaning up the code on the human, elf and giant skill list, but I didn't bother seeing if the values in the tables were correct/up to date though. I can also simplify the demi god portion of all 3 lists, but I'm going to wait for a bit of feedback first. (and I need a bit of a break :D...)

The tabs seem interesting, actually. Putting each skill set into a tab to organize it, similar to a filing cabinet. Just colour code the titles with the skills, and along with adding the icons instead of skill names like Yinato suggested. I did bring that up to him and he said he mentioned it, but I thought about it a bit ago, and thought that not everyone knows what each skill icon means, either. Even though you can have a screentip appear telling a person what each skill icon is, or just simply look at the bottom of your browser where it says where the link is being directed. Sure, clicking isn't that fun, but I guess it depends on a person's point of view. I do like the tab idea as well, and it makes pages shorter and it has everything lined up. Tabs are easy to work with, and it's just like how the skill tabs are in-game anyway. As him and I also spoke, display of certain content on the wiki could depend on a computer or web browser. Not everyone has the same operating system or web browser. :<

I also like the icon idea, although I don't know what a screentip is, we can always just make the name appear when you hover over the skill or put both.

I think she means hover text.

But if you use icons you can't sort by skill name.

Isn't there some coding workaround where you can assign order in a table?

That's a good point, Angevon. Maybe just use a skill icon for the Mastery skills? And a screentip is when you hover or mouseover a link or item and it tells you what it is, or when you mouseover a program on your computer/desktop, it gives you a title or description of what that program is. Does that make sense? o.o

I've also made a few changes to the alchemy skill table here[1], which is what Angevon orignally asked about. As for the workaround, I dont know if wiki markup supports ordering tables by file name or not. Also, there are a few issues with using skill icons instead of names. Not all browsers support the hover text option, (The small window that hovers if you scroll your mouse over it, like the daily SMs on the main page.) There's also the issue of the images not showing up properly, which happens quite a bit from what I've seen.

You logged off of Mabi too soon for me to reply, but the orange/salmon colour I chose does look really nice for the alchemy skills. It's not as bright and overpowering as the orange. And yeah, that's what a screentip is, Yinato explained it as well. And now that I think about it, I don't know if the tabs that you and I use allow me to put tables within them like the skill tables. I don't think it worked when I tried to add my journal in there. ._.

Well they sort of work. You can either transclude them in, or do a workaround. It'd be easier to explain if I could contact you outside of the wiki though (seeing as this isn't a forum :x).

Alright. Or I could just look at the coding you have and see how you did it. I've tried to put tables in tabs before and anything after the tab, it vanished and got shoved under the table I tried to create. |:

I've been messing around with the tables, and it turns out that you can sort by icons, but it'll make the code a bit messy. I'll post a link to it in a bit.

Okay here's the link [1]. I don't think hover text is necessary, since mot browsers already show their own version of hover text by default.

This method of sorting is already used in tables such as numerical sorting. o3o.

If you're talking about just sorting in general, then yes, it's already used. However, it kind of falls apart when you try sorting alphabetically by image name.

Oh, that actually looks nice. o: Edit: Now we just need Angevon to like tabs. :<

Looks good and if you want to use tabs go ahead lol.

I'm just going to remove the hover text for now since most browsers have their own default hover text enabled to begin with (that and my browsers don't display hover text properly :/), but other than that, I only need to fix a few more things and the tables will be ready.

You know, you can do the mouse-over with shorter text, Skill icons already have their own template. See Template:SkillIcon. You only need to input the value for parameter 1 and it will have a skill icon plus a link/mouse over.

Oh, I just rushed when I threw the table together earlier, so I didn't bother looking at the other templates yet. I'm actually in the process of converting it when I saw your comment. As for the mouse-over/hover text, some browsers don't display it properly which is why I was going to remove it. That, and unless you manually disabled it for your own browser, the default hover text will display.

Okay, everything's been converted. Now to go pass out :D...

Just finished going through all of the AP values (got friend to do it anyway o3o), so everything should be up to date. If you find any errors, let me know.

Some spreadsheeting has shown these errors (they're on the pages for all races, but I'll point it out here since the discussion seems most active):

1. Heat Buster: Totals here and on skill page are off due to addition error at R4->R3.
2. Enthralling Performance: Same, but error at C->B.
3. Lightning Shield: Same; error at 6->5.
4. Party Healing: 2->1 cost is listed as 15, not 30. Total AP and values on its skill page are consistent though.

Also it's kinda confusing to have the existing musical skills listed once under the life tab, and a second time as unimplemented (due to being grouped with bard skills). owo;

Quick question: If you noticed that the math was off (and for some of them, it's only off by 1), couldn't you have just made the changes yourself?

I would just fix it myself, if I had the original source of the numbers. I thought it may be wiser to bring the discrepancy to the attention of someone who can look them up for sure, though, rather than assuming it's the per-rank or total-per-rank values that are off. The closest I have to a source is the JP wiki's versions of the skills, but I don't want to stick in numbers from another server unless it's known that we have the same AP costs on NA. :c

TL;DR Translation: Too lazy, didn't wanna be blamed. *spammyalt+2*

If laziness was my priority I wouldn't have pointed out the errors at all, let alone calculated which ranks they crept in at. I wouldn't in fact, have a wiki account at all. Are you forgetting that I'm under no obligation to contribute to this wiki at all? Accusations of laziness are kinda rude, especially from someone with a user page saying "I'll be nice to you if you're nice to me.".

The whole *spammyalt+2* should've made it obvious that she was saying it in a joking manner. The fact that you were under the impression that it wasn't a joke, and then started being rude to Anemki because of it, makes you even more rude than what you made Anemki out to be. Honestly, I was thinking the same thing as her initial comment, I just chose to be indirect about it.

“	If laziness was my priority	„

Is that even possible? :|

Selective laziness would be a better fit in this case; You entered the numbers on a spreadsheet, referred to pretty much each skill (I'm guessing), calculated those to see if they were correct, found the ranks that were miscounted, yet didn't change about 10 numbers. The only issue here was with the culmulative AP costs, so it wouldn't matter if the individual values were correct or not since the total (based on the skill pages) were added incorrectly. (in this case anyway)
Edit:That's it, I'm making an Anemki ninja-ing counter XD

Firstly, I apologise to Anemki for not realising that *spammyalt+2* indicated a joke. Thinking about it, I think it refers to mabi expression hotkeys? I don't know for sure, but I did not mean to be rude, just to point out something which I perceived as mean. I put a decent amount of effort into researching this issue (including looking up all four magic shields on JP wiki to see if I could just take their AP values), so it doesn't feel nice to get nothing besides complaints that I didn't do more. Especially since the previous comment said "If you find any errors, let me know.".

Secondly... you both still seem to think that laziness was my reason for not making the changes, despite my earlier explanation. In your case you are now claiming selective laziness, rather than believing that I may have had a different reason for my decision. I'll try and clarify:

My priority for wiki editing is accuracy, so I don't fix anything unless I know what the correct values are. Instead I prefer to flag the issue for investigation.

My concern here isn't that the numbers on the chart don't match the values on the skill pages, it's the possibility that the skill pages themselves might be wrong. I don't currently have a way to check that, so I was hoping that somebody who does (for example, someone who knows how to extract and read client XML) might investigate and determine for sure where the error is.

If I simply changed the numbers so they added up, that'd erase any sign there's a problem without necessarily giving us accurate values.

I don't think 'selective laziness' describes my approach. 'Cautious editing', perhaps? Call it over-cautious if you like, but I still think laziness is unfair for the effort I've put in so far.

I'll take a look at them once I have time.

As for the life skills being in the bard skill list, it's just a placeholder for when g16s2 comes out.

Lul, I was being sarcastic. Take a chill. However, I simply didn't understand why you would make the calculations, but not add it.