Damage/Crit reduction testing

Originally a reply to Thread:Talk:Girgashiy/Raid Girgashiy/reply (5)

Yes, I agree completely.

Must have been tough to calculate the HP. Now if we only knew his defense/protection...

I will try to figure it out in all difficulties for protection, may be really close to accurate. For defense it will be hard since we all know he has high damage reduction % (way above 230+ for Solo and 300+ protection value for Easy and higher).

Bless your soul.

At easy Girgashiy I can crit at 142% crit fairly often, and I crit not really at all if ever at 135% crit. With 348-499 damage I hit between 4-6 no crits.

Oh yeah... I forgot Protection resists critical. If you're able to decently crit him at 142%, its protection could probably be around 50-60%? Then that means it has hundreds of defense.

I'm curious to know how Judgment Blade's defense cut works on Girgashiy. Does it stack? Does it have a duration or is it a permanent decrease?

I am not sure, and well if it was true, the critical would completely ignore the defense stat. Can someone who has Tethra can test on this?

Someone vaguely said it doesn't do anything.

Well, I see. It will take some time to find his hidden damage reduction stat.

Bone dragon and pegasus summon skills ignore protection and defense. Could be useful.

Someone told me that Girgashiy has some hidden passive damage reduction that is neither defense or protection. They vaguely said that defense piercing is negligible.

Even with Lance Piercing level 7, my smash damage goes into the 30s and 100s crits...

This is probably common in online games to produce artificial difficulty in the face of obscenely powerful people/parties.

In Maplestory for example, you can get skills and gear to completely ignore enemy defenses, so newer bosses have varying physical or magical damage reduction stats to counter that. This of course opened the door to gear (parallel of reforges) which ignores their ability to ignore a portion of your damage. Maybe in a few years or so we'll be seeing reforges to a similar effect.

Well if it was hidden passive defense reduction, should the template (raid) be adjusted for def(prot) to damage reduction %? Either way I am going to figure it out for each of difficulty for damage reduction %.

I tried using Shocked Brionac, on both the Solo and Easy versions. Saw no noticeable changes. Either Brionac doesn't work, or Girgashiy has zero Protection and has other means of reducing damage. So, can't use that to measure Protection :(

I tried already, but for some reason it did not work in NA, but works for KR. Look at this video [1]. As you can see, in KR, the hail doesn't ignore Mana Shield, and a person shown in video is using Shocked Brionac. The damage dealt to Girgashiy in KR is quite high, though does have weird heal mechanic.

Now I found out why, our Shocked Brionac did not work, spike doesn't stop souls, or why Mineral Hail bypasses the Mana Shield. Above the video I posted earlier, it was taken in April.

Mabinogi KR have issued patch for Girgashiy to make it even harder.

--KR Server Patches--

• 8/28/2014
  • Celestial Spike no longer 'stops' or 'freezes' souls.

• 10/7/2014
  • Brionac no longer works (as in reducing damage reduction) on Girgashiy
  • Mana Shield no longer blocks its attack

Due to that, since NA gave us these patches immediately that KR had for Girgashiy, it is near impossible to clear Girgashiy Hard for public raid party.

Tested myself. It is indeed low defense and high protection, with Brionac immunity. Tested damage before, after brionac, and after bone drake. Only the bone drake made a difference. As for low defense, I just compared normal hits to flash launcher on a fresh target. If there were high defense, the flash launcher would deal a noticeable amount more than 4 sets of autos, because of autos subtracting his defense (not sure if 4 or 8) times, but the damage was right on the nose at around 8x a single hit of the auto.

I have yet to test if demigod skills that ignore protection do fully damage him. This should be an easy way to check for extra forms of DR on top of his prot.

Can you check Spinning Uppercut as well, please?

My Lance smash does 30~50 damage. With Uppercut debuff it did 40~50 damage.

I tried Smokescreen but I don't see any noticeable difference.

I also tried a Warhammer, which gives me 2 less max damage than my Lance, and was doing 20~35 damage on Smash. My Lance has level 7 piercing.

It still seems like there is something besides protection that is reducing damage. If the Girgashiy had enough protection to reduce damage by 85-90%, it would probably require over 300% critical to have a chance at landing a critical hit. Perhaps Girgashiy's stats are programmed in a different manner? Something like a set damage reduction, and a set critical chance reduction.

That doesn't quite explain how protection reducing debuffs affect him though... This is confusing, lol.

Solo seems to have somewhere around 10 actual protection (still immune to Brionac) and the rest as a special damage reduction. Stacking uppercut on top of bone drake did little to nothing noticeable.

I can't really crit on Girgashiy on solo mode, even though I have like 120% crit rate. I'm pretty sure he has more than 10 protection. Keep in mind that it takes more and more protection to increase % damage reduction. For example, if you lose 10 protection from 262 to 252 protection, you go from 90% to 89% damage reduction. However, if you lose 10 protection from 10 to 0 protection, you go from 16% to 0% damage reduction.

The template may need to change to show protection value with damage reduction%. Girgashiy has two form of protection, one is base value of defense/protection, second is damage reduction %.

• The damage reduction % is ignored when you do Crusader execution (Shield of Trust --> Celestial Spike --> Judgment Blade)

Also something felt off when I last tested for HP values in all difficulties, turns out I was wrong and verified it again over 30+ times, and got the correct one this time. Updating the HP value for all difficulties except solo as it was correct.

• Easy: 160,000 HP
• Normal: 270,000 HP
• Hard: 400,000 HP

When it's downed, % is ignored for all attacks or just Judgment Blade...?

Doesn't the Judgment Blade Apostle Defense Reduction/Ignore/Whateveritsactuallyis have some value to it?

Only Judgment Blade, however the damage of Judgement Blade on downed Girgashiy depends on Celestial Spike's rank and divine damage. I do know higher divine damage can cause blade to deal more damage. On Normal, my blade's damage on him with regular and critical is 4,000-5,000 with critical being 20,000-22,000 (Rank 2 Judgment Blade that time with Level 7 Breaking Lies and Maxed Level Christening Blades) on Normal, and I had two people who had Rank 4 Celestial Spike, spiked on him after successful Shield of Trust (Yes more multiple spikes can increase blade damage even more, and it stacks).

22k Judgment Blade?! You're kidding... I'd like to see a screenshot of that.

Do you hit the same amount of damage on regular mobs, e.g. White Spider?

I am not kidding, it is true. I will show screenshot soon, and the damage is higher on regular mob, Girgashiy is different due to his protection and damage received is dependent on Celestial Spike's rank and divine damage.

On White Spider, it deal 11-12k regular with 49-52k critical damage.

EDIT: Here's the screenshot, it is taken in Hard difficulty.

Holy frick, RIP Spear of God... That's a pretty damning find and I applaud you for it.

But now...

• According to you, Celestial Spike amplifies the damage of Judgment Blade. There has to be some formula for that.
• A cap to CS's damage amplifying stacks. I mean Binding Needle has a cap of 5 stacks.
• Is JB's defense pierce 100% or based on rank? User:Tsukuyomai found a value that says 35 at rank 1, which I'm guessing is 35% pierce?
• How Breaking Lies' defense pierce amplifies JB. Is it 3% added to JB or a 3% flat ignore or what?

I wonder what are KR's and JP's results on this...

I had Rank 2 Judgement Blade with Level 7 Breaking Lies that time, and I am unsure of what JB's defense pierce was at Rank 2, when I critical him 57,162 with it. And I may think Breaking Lie's defense pierce adds to it or stack with it, I am not sure since it is hard to tell (Had two people with Rank 1 Celestial Spike, that allows me to hit that high).

And as for CS, they do stack, but I don't know what they cap at, assuming it is divine damage part, so we have to find formula for it for calculating final damage from JB after CS applied.

And Binding Needle is very useful and up to maximum stack, he will stay on knees for additional 7.5 seconds.

Okay, testing again, I can assume he has base protection value of 125 with second protection (passive damage reduction) which is damage reduction of 96%.

The second protection is ignored when you do crusader combo by an amount based on rank of spike.

Can someone edit the raid template to add second special stat which is passive damage reduction.

EDIT: It is across all of difficulties except Solo. I need to figure it out its protection value, and its passive damage reduction value.

If it's 125 base protection, how am I critting with 159.1% crit rate with bare handed normal attacks, no protection debuffs? Every 1 Protection = -2% crit, meaning that if Girgashiy has 125 protection then it would have 250% critical negation, making it impossible for me to crit.

The protection value I go by after Enlightenment update, which is this.

125 protection value is equal to 70% physical/magic reduction.

It can't be 125 protection otherwise I couldn't critical. Now if it were 70 that would still leave me 19% chance to critical.

IIRC User:Mystickskye tested that the Enlightenment Protection to damage reduction formula doesn't apply to monsters. It would make sense in this case.

The Enlightenment Protection system applies to all monsters. Regardless, 125 protection value requires at least 141%+ critical chance for critical hit to occur. I did a lot of testing which took quite long, smacked him a lot with 138-139% critical chance on Easy, never got critical hit at all. Now, I tested with 150%+ critical chance, sometimes critical hit him, but not often. When I tested with 170%+ critical chance, I scored critical hit often.

Lances with Level 9 Piercing, can make his protection value at 80, which requires at least 117% critical chance or higher.

EDIT: When I mention 70% physical/magic reduction, it is referred to 70% protection. 70% Protection = 125 Protection Value. As you mentioned "Every 1 Protection = -2% crit", it is changed in Enlightenment which is "Every 1% physical/magic reduction = -2% Critical". Why do you think Piercing Level were buffed after Enlightenment update?

EDIT2: "Critical resistance is based on damage reduction." meaning 1% damage reduction = 2% critical resistance.

Well, that certainly makes sense.

The defense and protection to damage decrease formula is: (Damage - Defense) * (100 - Damage Reduction from Protection) / 100. How is Girgashiy's damage reduction calculated into said formula?

For Girgashiy, the damage received for him is calculated as ((Damage - Defense) * (100 - Damage Reduction from Protection Value) / 100)) * ((100 - Passive Damage Reduction) / 100), in which his passive damage reduction is fixed at 96% for Girgaishy across all difficulties except Solo.

Another thing to note, the passive damage reduction of he has is the value of 322 (Enlightenment Protection system), similar to damage reduction from protection value, but as passive.

For calculating Blade to damage him during Crusader Combo if successful, it calculated as it is same as above but with a special calculation. It only occurs temporarily during Crusader Combo, and then returns back to normal.

Passive Damage Reduction = (322 - Divine Damage) going by the Enlightenment Protection system.

By divine damage, it stacks in addictive.

Example: Two Person with Rank 4 Celestial Spike with no Binding Bonuses or Wounding Soul, used spike on Girgashiy after successful Shield of Trust, the total divine damage is 300. Therefore it becomes 22 in which it is passive 28% damage reduction.

Therefore the formula is calculated as ((Damage - Defense) * (100 - Damage Reduction from Protection Value) / 100)) * ((100 - 28) / 100) during Crusader Combo for blade.

Ignore what I said above (formula for Crusader Execution Combo), turns out based on testing that my friend did and is confirmed, when you perform Crusader Execution Combo, with successful Shield of Trust and then Celestial Spike, the passive damage reduction is completely ignored for only Judgement Blade.

The damage cap is 100%.

Rank	N	F	E	D	C	B	A	9	8	7	6	5	4	3	2	1
Judgment Blade Damage (%)	3	6	9	12	15	18	21	24	27	30	33	36	39	42	45	48

Example: Two Person with Rank 1 Celestial Spike, will made Judgment Blade deal 96% of its damage.

Another example, a person with 200 max damage with Rank 1 Judgment Blade deals 1,800 normally. With Girgashiy's base protection value at 125 (70% damage reduction), which make blade can deal 540. With only a Rank 1 Spike (Total 48% Damage of Blade), the blade will deal 259 damage on him. With Rank 1 + Rank B (Total 66% Damage of Blade), the blade will deal 356 damage. Now with Rank 1 + Rank 1 (Total 96% Damage of Blade), the blade will deal 518 damage. At least 2 Rank 6 + Rank 5 Spike for blade to do its full damage.

The formula calculated for Judgment Blade is ((Damage - Defense) * (100 - Damage Reduction from Protection) / 100) * (Total Celestial Spike Rank / 100)

@Jiuhin: Wait, Critical ignores defense stat? That's the first I'm hearing that. If Girgashiy does possess some sort of overall damage reduction that is not defense or protection then yes it should definitely be added to the template.

Also KR may have made future adjustments to raids since first release? All I've heard is that they upped the max squad limit from 16 to 32.

@WhitePass: "Reforges break the game more." :/

Lets say if Girgashiy really have high defense, we would be dealing him 1s no? I used bare-handed and hit him with it, I deal more than 1 damage, so that was not "defense" stat. Take Ghast (All types) for example, he has very high defense, 5-20% damage reduction [Different for each type] (Protection Value of 3-27), you hit him, almost near 1s or low damage right? but when you critical on him, you deal really high damage, much more than hitting him without critical. I slightly remember, as due to SAO Peaca Zone 4/5. my gun damaged Red/Blue Ghast by 1s without critical and with critical, it deals over 1,500. Then again other than Ghast, there aren't any other monsters/boss that have very high defense to begin with.