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Monster list idea?

Monster list idea?

So, I had this idea. What if instead of having like 20 different normal skeletons all everywhere, like skeleton then skeleton (hard mode) but not like skeleton then pirate skeleton, what if we had them set up like the weapons that can become spirit weapons where there's a click-able tab that shows you the spirit weapon base stats and such, except for monsters. So, like for skeletons the normal base skeleton would be all like: Normal, Hard mode, Shadow mission, etc. Instead of having a full on page just for hard mode skeletons. Which is weird because spiders and rats aren't sorted like that. I know I don't know about these template things and coding, but any input?

Meru (talk)16:21, 25 February 2014

Unlike the different levels of shadow realm monsters and spirit weapons, the hardmode and regular versions of monsters aren't always similar enough for that kind of organization to make sense.

Sozen Cratos Focker (talk)16:31, 25 February 2014

If anything I'd merge hardmode skeleton page with normal skeleton page.

Swissed ✰ Toast (talk)16:38, 25 February 2014
 

Is that not what the notes and advice sections are for? Or even all the other details on the monster template?

Meru (talk)18:29, 25 February 2014
 

I don't see why we have two different pages for dungeon monsters when they all could be in one page. Hell, why were some monster pages separate when there's hardly anything different about them (Golem/Magic Golem, Stone Bison/Ice Bison, etc.)?

IIRC the only thing different about dungeon monsters in regular and hardmode is their stats and drops and maybe their AI (bats and rats aggro aggressively), which is the same for shadow/theatre monsters in varying difficulties.

Infodude575 (talk)20:35, 25 February 2014

Skeletons are basically all the exact same except for aggro then they just pretty much follow goblin ai. What exactly are these differences that warrant their own template entry? Different looks and name sure, but red spider and red spider with more hp is different enough? The normal red spider and the hard mode red spider entries are pretty much exactly the same except for a tiny few drops. A tab system would bring page size down and get you to your monster faster. I mean what I'm saying is sure maybe they can have their own entry, sort of like how the different shadow mission levels of red spider, but as a tab system like the spirit weapon tab on the normal weapon template. It would still show individual drops and template just tabbed to fuse together the same exact monster entries with tiny changes. The same information in a smaller form would be better, right? I know I'm not too good at explaining things. It might also get some flow going to fill out or correct the entries themselves. There is still a lot of info missing on a lot of monsters. Also incubus might benefit some for the stats of its raged mode and non raged. It still doesn't have the fact that the male player version has 5000 cp while the female player initial version has like 2000 cp which then levels up to the male initial version to 5000 cp, and then there is this guy http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Lebbaeus ,but this wall of text is already too big. There's more examples somewhere I'm sure.

Meru (talk)22:54, 25 February 2014
 

by your logic, everything named "Skeleton" should go on Skeleton's page, everything with "Red Skeleton" goes on Red Skeleton's Page and etc...There is an actual monster called Armored Skeleton in Peaca Abyss. That is visually similar to Full Armor Skeletons (I think either white or Metal...need to recheck when I run it later...if ever).

Also Tabbing breaks page links. You won't be able to get directed if the page is tabbed out. That's a lot of links to fix.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)23:13, 25 February 2014

No, I was talking about separate templates for that example which I wasn't wanting to do in the first place for that. I just decided to respond to kapra too in the same post. I'm saying there is a skeleton page for all the skeletons, and each skeleton can have its own template, but the skeleton entry has normal skeleton and hard mode skeleton in one box and you just click the tab for the hard mode skeleton info. Most page links that go to specific places in a page are already broken and don't go to where it advertises anyway from my experience. It would be like:

  • Skeleton
    • {Normal} {Hardmode} {Shadow mission}
  • Red Skeleton
    • {Normal} {Hardmode} {Shadow Mission}

And please I know all about the monsters and such lol I have been playing since g2 after all. Just saying because you keep telling me things I already know. I know it might be a lot of work, but it would look much better and be easier I think. We don't separate spirit weapon stats and normal weapon stats on different pages after all, so I just thought we could do that for monsters too to make the long pages a little shorter. Also what if some cool person decides to fill in all the missing monster entries like some very specific skeleton from on certain non shadow mission dungeon. We would have like 7 different skeletons that are all the exact same. Another example that would benefit from this is giant field bosses, old giant field bosses, and event ones. Like ifrit and old ifrit and event ifrit.

Meru (talk)09:47, 26 February 2014

Links that are broken because of a move can be fixed by editing the link, links that are broken by tabs cannot.

The main reason monsters like skeletons and golems are split into different pages is efficiency. Using tabs wouldn't make the pages load any faster on older/weaker machines and it wouldn't waste less resources on the information the reader isn't looking for; it would only make the pages vertically shorter, but not by enough to make the ToC useless, so it would only make the user have to click more.

Sozen Cratos Focker (talk)14:02, 26 February 2014

Just wondering, but yeah tabs are a bit difficult to work with by adding certain templates to it, but what about transcluding pages into them?

Yinato set up his userpage, as did I with transcluding things together. This keeps templates together or links functioning just fine. Just make a separate page for it and include it with a code in there so it functions fine.

Hi I'm Anemki, and I like being silly! ★ talkcontributions21:18, 26 February 2014

What?

Sozen Cratos Focker (talk)23:56, 26 February 2014
 

Tabs are easy...just a lot of stuff to fiddle with with clashing templates and what not. Also I would not make a bunch pages just to link it in a single place...though that's what the monster pages are; a bunch of templates of Monster data, compiled into a page. Though if we could transclude everything, it would eventually end up like the Talent page having to link to another page. As I recall, Talent page was separated due to a transclusion error? I'll dig around later for the reason.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)00:11, 27 February 2014

But...everything IS being transcluded on those pages already >_>; Those monster data templates only show up through transclusion, which means that there shouldn't be an issue of running into a limit if the current monster pages haven't derped yet. Besides, look at how large the talent page is compared to all the templates linking to a type of monster.

Yinato (talk)13:52, 27 February 2014
 

Maybe it's just the amount of things and page size...I mean it's the only page in the Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)14:24, 27 February 2014
 

blegh...dubpost.

Anyways, there's a brief mention here but yeah...you can only transclude so much apparently.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)00:11, 27 February 2014
 
 

Pretty much what Sozen said.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)00:07, 27 February 2014
 

Kinda confused about what exactly you want. How exactly do you want things to be merged? Correct me if I'm wrong, but my interpretation is that you want to be able to go to the skeleton page, scroll down to the part that shows metal skeleton (light armor), and be able to view the hard mode version of it on the same page through using tabs, as opposed to having to click the link to view all hard mode skeletons and scroll to find the HM version.

Yinato (talk)12:58, 27 February 2014

Yeah, a box that shows just like how the templates are now, but above it is a tab that shows the template of another version of the exact same kind of skeleton inside, and etc with other versions of the same monster with the same name. Like, Ifrit, Ifrit(old), Ifrit(event). Not all one big template.

Meru (talk)13:36, 27 February 2014

This is just a very rough attempt. 1 monster template, but supplies values for 3 different variations of the monster. Also put in tabs and can have it redirect to point to the normal version of the monster (for now). Pretty sure I was able to make links work like 2 years ago while messing around, but I'll look into it once my midterms are over and I get more feedback.

Yinato (talk)15:21, 27 February 2014
 

You can't redirect into content found inside tabs. You'd have 3 links redirect to one link, and the person searing would still have to click the tab.

レキシス・ミカヤ (talk)15:35, 27 February 2014
 

The tabs were just there because Meru requested them. Tabs or not, that 1 template still gives values for multiple monsters, which was the whole point of that rough work/test lol >_>. Well, that and I wanted to know how flexible the monster data template was. Check my second sandbox again and you'll see that it doesn't require tabs.

Yinato (talk)15:58, 27 February 2014
 
 
 
 
 

There is a large enough difference to warrant their own template entry and not be just another tab or anything, but I do agree the pages should be merged.

Kapra - (Talk)20:47, 25 February 2014