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Non-KR/NA Updates
Rather than making dozens of replies to individual posts I'm writing it all here. You're right, we should use a euphemism for Skipped Content because Skipped seems to imply we were obligated to receive the content. Of course we're not but since we cannot combat assumptions we need to adjust the source so assumptions are difficult to make. How about we move every future content (such as Treasure Hunter, Smart Content, etc) under the Skipped Content tab and rename it Foreign Content? We already say in the template that we may never get the content, we could also update on the description.
Yes, I do consider changes to other server's premium service to be "skipped content". No, Argel's shop I would argue is a glitch, not skipped content (then again glitch's are in the eyes of KR Nexon or DevCAT, not the playerbase nor Nexon NA), since we do have his shop but it seems to be empty.
Pets, Cash Items, Gachapon Rewards, and Event Rewards are not on this page, except for the very first few patches that haven't been rewritten in a long time. I do not think they should go on this page, but I do think they should get their own version of a patches page with dates of release. That being said, that is way too big of a project for me.
Just in response to Imbored, you're not wrong but we just misworded the bullet so it doesn't make much sense as is. What it should say is, the icon is change and the colors at certain values changed. Lets say right now its blue at 10k or less in a check, it would be red later. (Hypothetical colors.) I'll fix that in a bit.
Yes, yes, yes. Same sex marriage and Nekojima IS skipped content to KR. I don't see that as a valid argument that what is currently listed in the skipped content section isn't so. In fact, after we resolve this, I would like to add Nekojima to the list of skipped content (or quit this wiki).
I think I responded to all the points mentioned since my last response? I might have missed a few and only skimmed through re-reading.
This next part is just personal and my view on this ideology, you don't have to read the rest if you don't want. I will say this bluntly, I care about this wiki because it is a valuable resource to new and old players alike and it has helped me many times in the past and probably will in the future, and I want to make sure it stays that way. But if we remove information of pages simply because we don't have it yet or a small group of people think we won't get it (not saying they're not right), then I will quit this wiki. Not saying you should care, I don't think you should. But this community would be beyond saving if we embrace that kind of ideology.
It'd still beg the question why we need a Foreign Content section at all. No one has yet to give a good reason why it's important. Even with proposed changes it'd be a woefully incomplete and inadequate resource of little use.
And if you're gonna threaten to quit then just quit rather than making with faux dramatics. I've already stated how the wiki suffers from the "anything/everything" attitude some editors have when it comes to what should go on the wiki. It's not too far of a call to say it's in part why the wiki has required new dedicated staff members to help clean up.
Argel's shop being empty is not a glitch for us. It was intended (why, I have no idea) that we didn't get his shop or his Shadow Missions. The bug is that he displays his shop (albeit empty) for us. But if Tasket put it on the list "Not a Bug" that his shop is empty, then it's not a bug. (Since it's not a QA person who has the final say, he just submits the report to the developers like all QAs in a game company does).
As for the Premium Service, it's region exclusive. Japan has it's own Inventory Plus service as it includes Guild Service, did any of the other regions have that? No. China has a special service only to them which is VIP+, which includes some better stuff (I can't read Chinese, but the picture explains it well enough). I have no idea about Taiwan, since you're required to sign in to even view their cash shop stuff. Korea of course, has their stuff, and we have ours.
I'm too lazy to continue right now though, as I have Finals I need to study for.
I'm just going to say this straight out and feel free to disagree, Tasket says bullshit. He has marked things that KR explicitly said wasn't a glitch or was purposeful as a glitch (and vice versa). I seriously doubt he knows what he's talking about. Either way, we must trust the superior jurisdiction (Nexon KR) over the word of the inferiors (Nexon NA).
Mystickskye, you are using the wrong level of scrutiny. In a wiki, all information belongs by default. You should be asking why not including something, not why include it. A better argument would be why include foreign/future content on this page and not give it their own page (though I think keeping them in one place would be simpler). By default, all information should be mentioned in full somewhere. The only exceptions would be gamebreaking things, abusable glitches (we are still trying to redefine how we determine if something is abusable or not, that's a conversation for another thread), and hacks. However, that isn't to say we have an exclusionary rule. Information obtained from illegitimate tools (you know which) are still allowed at the moment.
No. What does and does not belong in a wiki is entirely subjective, which is why there are disputes about this in the first place. One easy counter to that assertion is mods and exploits. It is widely agreed upon that they do not belong on the wiki. What counts as an exploit is sometimes open to discussion though. My stance on this is that too much information is a bad thing. There is a possibility of useful information being drowned out by extraneous information. I remain neutral on this particular discussion of "Skipped Content" and foreign content in general, but I felt it was necessary to point out that the above quote is your opinion and not a fact.
Does tasket know what he's talking about? Who knows, but who are you to say? As for trusting the "superior" jurisdiction that is of a different culture, and therefore is comprised of a different set of standards (as opposed to someone who has contact with the "inferior", yet local jurisdiction), is stupid. I guess Manus being black is a glitch then? Oh wait, it's called localization. While you may think Nexon NA may be inferior, they do have some say as to what/how something does/doesn't get implemented, but whether they do it the way they intended to is a different story.
I could write a 20 page paper on how wrong that statement is. If that were the case, the amount of useless trivia that would have otherwise overrun this wiki would have made pages cluttered to say the least. (mythology, tie-ins with vindictus, etc.)
In a wiki, all information belongs by default. You should be asking why not including something, not why include it. A better argument would be why include foreign/future content on this page and not give it their own page (though I think keeping them in one place would be simpler). By default, all information should be mentioned in full somewhere. This is definitely not true. In fact taken as is it runs counter-intuitive to the purpose of the wiki which is at it's simplest to aid/serve the general populace. I'll say it (yet) again, the wiki suffers from your sort of attitude.
@Blargel This is an opinion, yes, but there is no such thing as too much information. We can not be too detailed (so long as we're not explaining how to open your inventory and equip a bow and arrow in the description of an archery skill). The more information, the better. The question is not if we have too much information, its how are we organizing it. Also, in the same post you're responding to, I clearly said there are things outlined we should not talk about, including the things you are using in a response to prove my statement wrong (at least that's how I am perceiving it). But back to the point, in order to not drown useful information with deemed less useful information, the solution would be to separate the two.
@Yinato Valid argument. I'm not saying we should or should not listen to Nexon NA, but based on even their patch notes, significant things that they write can be proven wrong with simple ingame testing. They seem to be uninformed in everything other than events, ignoring for the fact that what they tell Sabina to say is also wrong. I'm just saying, lets take it with a grain of sand, not as the law of the land.
@Mystickskye The feelings are mutual.
So assuming we do keep future content and skipped content (not saying we are but for the argument if we are), what are peoples opinions of mixing the two into a foreign content section, or its own version of the patches page (which would include unreleased patches such as Treasure Hunter), and make it explicitly clear all or some of these updates and parts of the updates might not ever be added to NA?
There is such a thing as too much information.
-stares at Lugh's Trivia-
I tried cleaning that out once. Guess who opposed?
Okay, I definitely didn't read the post I replied to carefully enough. Still you say there's no such thing as too much information yet you also say that we shouldn't be describing how to equip a bow and arrow, etc. You're clearly drawing the line somewhere on what is too much information, just like the rest of us, but this line appears to be in a very different place in comparison to the majority of other editors (as far as I can tell anyway... you're the only one I know of that is this vehemently opposed to removing certain things).
Yes, as I said, there is such a thing as too much information, I purposefully contradicted myself in the same post, but as I said, that is not the type of thing we are doing, this is a different case entirely.
Majority does not equal right either, not that majority is right or wrong. If the majority of the game wanted to remove information about housing so only those who knew could benefit and players who do not know cannot find out, that does not make it right either. A sort of exaggerated example but that is exactly how I see it. There is not legitimate reason to remove the information, at least none mentioned in this thread so far as far as I can see.
Translation, you screwed up and have no idea what your view is on the matter.
Way to state something without actually stating anything...
Everything you've said thus far is based on your own closed-minded views and opinions. Let me make this clear; you are but one "editor" who is trying to make the wiki into your own vision. Your reasoning is circular, your points lack common sense, and the fact that you've stated that you will be closed-minded on the matter means that no matter how valid a given reason may be, you will just turn around and say "nope, not a good reason".