Dual Guns List Reversion

Anyway back to the main topic at hand... Unless you want to surrender.

You're the one I'm waiting for a response from.

• Bare Hands: Has its own stat values that are overriden by other weapons.
• Dual Guns: Has most properties of Ranged Weapons: Can hit enemies in flight, triggers Natural Shield, etc etc.
  • May I bring Gold Strike into this? Its technically Ranged Skill but if I'm not mistaken it isn't affected by Ranged Attack because its damage isn't from your damage range.

“	It's your base attack. It's just a number that is calculated in place of a weapon, since no weapon is equipped.	„

• Yes, we went over that guns are a ranged weapon. But, despite not having wanted to have to do this once again, "Again, Ranged Attack only benefits Bows and Crossbows".
  • All you did was mention Gold Strike. What about it? How does Gold Strike defend your argument? Jesus.

Ranged Attack's description says nothing about bows and crossbows, it just says "long range attacks". That can imply dual guns are affected too, not to mention the fact that they don't have any skillset masteries.

Heh, that's just nexon's poor wording and that the description is VERY old and will most likely never be updated to accommodate new weapons/skills.

• And what do you mean they don't have any skillset masteries?

Skill Set Mastery (disambiguation)

• Combat Skills - Combat Mastery
• Ranged Skills - Ranged Attack
• Magic Skills - Magic Mastery
• Magic Bolts - Bolt Mastery
• Life Skills - Production Mastery
• Bard Skills - Playing Instrument
• Alchemy Skills - Alchemy Mastery
• Alchemy Production - Transmutation
• Fighter Skills - Combo Mastery
• Puppetry Skills - Control Marionette
• Dual Gun Skills - NOTHING

NOTHING....except for this? http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Dual_Gun_Mastery

• Not to mention combat mastery affects most everything. I mean where is the Lance skillset mastery? That has new skills yet no mastery for it, omg!

That falls under Weapon Mastery (disambiguation).

Wait. So Ranged Skills have Ranged Attack as their "skill set mastery" and "Dual Gun Mastery" isn't Dual Gun Skills'? Is today contradictory day?

That's not contradicting anything. Sword, Axe, Blunt, Lance, Bow, Crossbow, Knuckle, Pierrot, Colossus, Magic Weapon, Shield, Heavy/Light Armor, Guard Cylinder just affect that piece of gear. Combat Mastery further contributes to all Sword, Axe, Blunt, Lance, Knuckle, Pierrot, and Colossus, Ranged Attack affects both Bow and Crossbow, and Control Marionette affects both Pierrot and Colossus.

That is beside the point, Ranged Attack has no relevance to Dual Guns and Ranged Weapons List should be divided.

Ranged Weapons List has already been divided into Bows List, Crossbows List, Atlatls List, and Dual Guns List.

And Pyrus, as I stated before, Dual Guns possess many traits of Ranged Weapons yet they aren't affected by Ranged Attack? Then how is it that Knuckles, Instruments, Control Bars, and even magic weapons possess many traits of Melee Weapons and are affected by Combat Mastery?

I share similar traits with the POTUS. Does that make me the president?

Okay then, lets merge Swords List, Blunt List, Axe List, etc! No, separate the lists. ANd yes, it is not effected by Ranged Attack, why is that so terribly hard to understand it has no relevance to archery? Gameplay isn't even remotely similar to archery, coming from somebody who actually tried guns. The only similarities are:

• They both suffer dearly from lag.
• Like Elven Ranged Attack, they both shoot two ammunition.

That is not enough to make them similar.

Also, let my point out that:

• Combat Mastery - Allows Melee Normal Attack (though there's a separate action-hotkey added for that years after its release)
• Ranged Attack - Allows Archery Normal Attack
• Throwing Attack - Allows Javelin Throwing Attack
• Magic Mastery - Does not.
• Alchemy Mastery - Does not.
• Combo Mastery - Does not.
• Control Marionette - Allows you to control the marionette, it does not allow melee with puppet handles, that's combat mastery's job.
• Dual Gun Mastery - Allows Gun Normal Attack, despite it being a so called "weapon mastery".

Fomor Weapons List has a stockpile of lists of every weapon type.

Ranged Attack means you attack with a long ranged weapon. As I said before, the description doesn't say jack about a specific type, not bows, not crossbows, not gold, not spider traps (even though it doesn't do any damage), not guns. Guns are also used to attack from a long range, doesn't have to be similar to archery.

Because that list was made to easily find Fomorian weapons, rather than have to go through all of the weapons lists to find possible fomorian weapons. It was not to generalize weapon types.

Anyone BUT infodude think Ranged Weapons List should remain?

I honestly don't understand why this page still exists after a day from this thread. . . If nobody disagrees within 24 hours, I will separate the pages.

uhh as it is now? I'd rather have it as a disambiguation page. Ranged Weapon is such a broad term e-e...Then I guess Lances are ranged weapons since they attack from a distance. ;c

Well there was this one melee weapon enchant that I couldn't put on my lance... I don't remember which enchant it was though. Maybe just a bug?

I second Lexis's notion.

Can we at least keep Ranged Weapons Category then?

If it only applies to appropriate lists pages/category pages, I don't really see why they'd be necessary on individual item pages.

Then ... what does Dual Gun Mastery affect? Nothing?

Edit: In fact, do you know what a contradiction is? It doesn't seem like your post was even heading towards explaining how it wasn't one.

Just the weapon. It doesn't do anything extravagant to the skills themselves.

• Ranged Attack directly affects aiming speed of other ranged skills.
• Magic Mastery directly affects Blaze.
• Bolt Mastery directly affects Icebolt, Firebolt, and Lightning Bolt.
• Production Mastery directly affects production-based life skills.
• Alchemy Mastery directly affects most alchemy skills.
• Transmutation directly affects production-based alchemy skills.
• Combo Mastery directly affects damage and cooldown of other fighter skills.
• Playing Instrument directly affects the effects of other music skills.
• Control Marionette directly affects the cooldown of other puppetry skills.

Dual Gun Mastery only affects the equipped weapon's damage and critical, that's it, nothing towards Dual Gun Skill's damage nor cooldown.

If you understood the mechanics of the game, you'd understand they work all just the same. Taking your logic into considering, that makes them all the same skill.

Then again, that's asking too much from you. Can't even differentiate guns and bows. How in the world would you understand mechanics.

Combat mastery does nothing to melee skill cooldowns. And Dual Gun Mastery does boost dmg of Dual Gun skills.

Since there is currently no other weapon type that uses Dual Gun skills, we can't be certain weather it's the weapon mastery or the skillset mastery, but skillset fits better.

Oh, and the fact that DG mastery has the "use" option is pretty solid proof that it's a skillset mastery.

We get that, but why does it matter to this topic?

Just stop. It doesn't matter what it uses (and no, Guns do not use Ranged Attack), all weapon types should be separate, why is this even an argument?