User talk:Seecret/Archive01

Dear, Tamara. I have to ask, why do you always persist to try and change original pics with your pics. First of all, I don't see any difference, second of all, I don't see any necessary part at all, Makes me really think you're doing this for fame, or because you want every thing to have your character's image in it. Really, I see you always trying to revert posts. And you always refusing to listen to others. Team Mari people has said you're rude, and very stubborn. E.G the Portia set. The colors look BLENDED. However you refused to even dye it to at least make it none blended. One of the Team Mari people spoke to you but you refused to cooperate. TM people think you're very rude. Unnecessary edits, really don't need to be made, if a image is there, then leave it there, if people don't like it, I'm sure people would complain about it. But you insist on replacing images that don't make a difference at all. I don't know you, but seriously? You've upset one of our members in Team Mari. And that wasn't nice. If you want fame, you can do that in Alexina in Mabinogi... Come on, at least be NICE and bother to understand what people try to say instead of being stubborn. SINCERELY- Some members of Team Mari. No we don't hate you, but I found you extremely rude and stubborn, so please fix your attitude... =/

I've never been rude to anyone x.x, and I have no idea what "Team Mari" is. I replace images when they need improvement. If you press edit on a page, at the very bottom it will show a tag called Category:NeedPicture, with a reason on why it needs to be replaced. Otherwise, there are other ways you can tell just by looking at the differences in an image or the reason of why it has a new image on it. For the Portia, I never had any complaints for blended colors whatsoever, and I really don't see how it would have that sort of complaint. There is one part on the clothing that is see-through, so maybe you are looking at it at a different way ^^; I do not contribute on the wiki to "show off my character", which is the whole reason I cut half my head off. I don't cut it all off because there are tons of complaints about headless images, otherwise I would have done it. To me the wiki is a place for me to actually be able to help :/ and volunteer, so I see nothing wrong with me trying to help. Who cares who uploads what, as long as the images are meeting standards and improved to the best they can be. Thank you for listening to what I have to say ^^; Sorry to have to say it like this..

Not to interfere with this, but just note that I will be supervising this thread. If this gets out of hand, there will be consequences.

Jus' tryin' to keep the peace.

It's all good Kevin ^^; That is all I had to say, I honestly really don't like fights, as well as I don't understand why people bash on me for volunteering :/ Um, carry on. ^^;

Let me get this straight. According to you, Seecret is using the Wiki as a source of "fame" and wants everything to have her character's image in it. You, meanwhile, are bothered by her replacing images containing certain other peoples' characters because those other peoples' characters are no longer being featured.

Pot, kettle. Just saying.

I have to sort of agree tbh. Seecret is very stubbon and constantly reverts images and/or updates pages when they really do NOT need to be improved at all. Most of ones I see her reverting seem to be very pointless and there's next to zero difference between the 2 images. I also always figured that once an admin or mod reverts the image then that's the point to completely stop and accept it. Not usually the case with seecret...some might consider that rude and/or disrespectful.

• shrugs*

I'm actually under the impression that reversions/uploads done by moderators/admins would be final. Though I am aware that there are times that it could be replaced, however that depends on the circumstances...unfortunately, this case seems to have been started by the Lileas's Suit...however Hienya seems to have an issue with the portia outfit as well. I will admit it is slightly blended...but at least it replaces the the previous images due to the fact it broke the policy by having glow effects on...Obviously this person (along with many others) is not pleased with Seecret's uploads that actually follow the policy. I'll admit I have ran into problems with my own uploads...people saying I hack other accounts and what not...usually told in-game since I sorta encouraged people to add me in-game if they wanna chat with me and the latter. I've even gotten Hate mail during the time that I left my e-mail on my user page. I mean, sure it may seem like (to some people) I am a single person monopolizing the wiki with many accounts, but in actuality, I have friends, and even family, to help with contributions. Of course, i give credit where it is due.

Now...as far as the recent reversion war, I see very little difference, other than the High res.

Who the hell cares. It's a picture. If anything. Delete all the old revisions since they are taking space!

At first, I didn't even know what to say here. Granted, Seecret has come to me with people bugging her, and sometimes I can see why. Some images don't have many differences, but like the above poster said, who cares? Both of them fit the policy, just stick with one, and remove the silly war? On top of that, she has said countless times that she does /not/ do this for fame. She has stopped threads about this and left them before and even has a notice at the top here. u.u" There are images of hers that are not even of her character as well. This can also be done by having someone model for you (which I do, and I am sure Lexis does this as well). And what a wonderful place to start this, all over the wiki like everyone else, instead of in-game, or elsewhere, so everyone can see it. That's no good at all. Oh, and I have never heard of "Team Mari" either, and I kind of got confused when you brought up Alexina. Those are two different severs, correct? Whoever "Team Mari" is, I'm kind of wondering, because I'm actually on that server. I would think that whoever she "upset" would be here, instead of you, Hienya. The only edits you have are just of the Lileas revert, have you not done much else? o.o" And to not forget the topic for this, the Portia and Lileas costumes, there are /some/ differences, such as higher res, or no other equipment, and the one posted by Litehaku has the film shader on. As far as the Portia, there were no real complaints as she said, just someone who seemed to create an account, upload images not fitting the policy, and just reverting for no reason. But why pick it apart? The current images are fine, and fit the policy. Higher res is perfectly fine, as long as it isn't too much to a point where it distorts the item. When I mentioned contributions, I did that because I also wonder if some people come here just to /start/ revert wars with other users for gags and kicks and do nothing else. That's no good either. If that's why you made an account here, then you shouldn't bother staying. It's silly when people do that. But I'm gunna end this because I have stuff to do. Just wanted to stand up and pretty much say "back off" but with more words. Kbye~ c:

Honestly, thank you >< um..all I was doing mostly with replacing the lileas was so that the side view had both sides, since there is a difference between the two. The other point was the glasses the other image had, as well as it wasn't as focused on the lileas. ^^; Since people have been so mad at me for contributing I have actually done a lot less contributions lately. I think people just have a problem with my PAST reverts, and they are taking it out on me now. I would honestly love to be friends with all of you..and I am with most of you already ^^; to me, anyways. I just woke up so my grammar isn't really that perfect, and sorry for that.

Besides, Seecret is just super active on here, so what? The Lileas outfit she had only replaced once, and Litehaku had replaced it for no real reason, as it is. So initially, the photos by Seecret were cropped, they had high resolution, and no other items. And to replace all of them, instead of the side, it keeps them consistent. I had to do that too for the female Bat Set. And really, could people just quit starting these huge rants directed at Seecret? I'm so getting tired of it. :/

If any of this "Team Mari" or any related cult shit persist, it will not be tolerated.

And yes, I am also under the impression that if an admin reverts an image, that it is the final decision, unless there is a clear justification as to why a new version should be uploaded.

And I would agree. Seecret here is just trying to help the wiki. Let's appreciate the work she's contributed to our wiki and how she's using her time to improve our "Mabi Lifestyle", whereas some people (i.e. the OP is just a newly created account to harass and accuse, not even to contribute) just sit and enjoy the wiki. Without contributors like Seecret and the rest of you and I, we wouldn't have this wiki, so let's be thankful that this wiki even exists (especially with the lack of donations, I'm not even sure who pays for the server anymore).

If i could donate directly without using paypal. Then i would!

Wow..you really have just put me in awe ><;; Thank you, Kevin! I'm smiling on the inside and the outside, if that makes any sense at all ^^; I do work hard for the wiki every single day, and I actually refresh the recent changes every 5 mins or so.

What a wonderful post that was. Apparently, a friend of mine told me "Team Mari" is some silly group on facebook.We know that the wiki is no place for shenanigans like /that/. Now that I think about it, people need to grow up. "You've upset one of our "Team Mari" members, you're really in trouble now". Whatever. It's a joke, and it doesn't need to be taken here. Plus, Kevin is right, a lot of us bust our butts and actually contribute, and idiots come here just to revert things for kicks, and that gets you banned! Good job. I noticed on the facebook page for this thing, has Tsima or whatever his name is in those screenshots, I think. Wasn't that another dude that was being rude here as well? /trollface C:

Woooah. So Ive been busy with school and I see about one or two people agreeing with me and heaps of people siding with Seecret. Look, I love the wiki, but I hated it(this is my PERSONAL Pov, we all have different POV's, so, don't hate lol) when Seecret always reverts images EVEN IF the original picture was just fine. Seriously, why do that? doing that makes me think you want fame and to add it on your "contribution list". And okay second, Team Mari is not a "silly group on facebook", Anemki, or should i say a member of Lightguardia, my past guildie? Team Mari has 665 members. Which is A LOT for a "silly facebook group for some people". The member even asked you politely if you could dye it or some sort to make it look not blended, your response? no of course, because like I said you're stubborn, and you know that to the revertations. Okay, so all the admins take your side, because I have a point of view here? It just annoys me that I see a crap load of items on your "list", does it make you proud? really? I actually prefered some original images, not only Lileas, but you had to barge in and replace it, some images even had black, white or a dark red on it. If I remember right, those are NOT allowed on the wiki? yet you keep reverting it anyways so you can have it on your list? I'm not trying to make you feel bad, I just wish you can stop being so stubborn and listen to some of us sometimes. Anemki, if you are a fellow Marian, you should know what's happening. No, Team Mari is not a stupid group as you say, because it's what we do, besides forums, because this is our Mari group. If you don't believe me, Anemki, you can join your self and check it out. We post not only irrelevant subjects, but also Mari selling, buying, warnings, and we tell what's going on. The member posted about Seecret, stating her attitude is horrible. And ETC. So just because of that you guys all try to hate on me for trying to defend my fellow- server buddy from Mari? Is this really how Alexina people are? Sigh. Seecret is 15 though. Her age should explain why she's so stubborn at times, but okay. Sorry, for the late reply cause I was busy with school and just got on holiday *-*

asdniasdiasd I should read everything before posting e.e Anemki, Tsima is banned from Team Mari. We all hate him. And no, your trolling skills are quite amateur, you may want to learn from Daannyx or some one that's a "troll" lol xD

a big note here. One, I am not bashing her, I simply wish she could listen to what we have to say, and at least try to understand how some of us think. If that counts as bashing, then what the heck lol.

Two, I know this can result a ban, but I am stating my POV here. If you guys can't handle it... Then nevermind =/ forget what I said because my points of view are useless to you guys anyway. Have a good day al' -log out cause I have stuff to do @@-

• What "attitude"? I have only ever been nice to people...
• Nobody asked me to dye my Portia, and if so it must have been long ago and I didn't have enough for dyes.
• I have the contributions list so I can keep tabs on what I can update that I've done to make the wiki better, and I can't go to my contributions list because it would only show me my past 500 contributions (including text edits).
• If you saw an image where I have black and/or white in it, I remind you I have been on this wiki for a long time and it was probably old, when I was still learning HOW to contribute. There is no problem with mistakes whatsoever.
• Calling me stubborn for reverting images that actually may be unnecessary? That's a very horrible thing to say :/
• Nobody here is "siding", they are just stating what they think is right or wrong in a situation like this.
• Just because "Team Mari" has however many members, doesn't mean it's going to be as much of a deal as the rest of the people using the wiki, which is what over 5 million? ^^;
• Oh, last but not least, the users here on the wiki are my friends, and I really think you should watch what you say about them. They mean a lot to me and they aren't bad at all!

Thank you, and I am finished here. Sorry to Kevin or anyone else who got the messages just now, and hopefully this situation is resolved, or at least soon. ^^;

First reply her~, Uh....mabye "Team Mari" should actually uhhhh whats the word, CONTRIBUTE? Instead of making random accounts to go and complain about things that aren't even a big deal, the only thing that needs a change on the portia page is the icon. Other than that i really don't see whats wrong with it. Your right, everyone has their pov, and the way i see it you guys are trying to bug someone because they contribute a lot? The excuses your naming weren't real big issues :|..so can we please put an end to this.. The wiki isn't a place for arguements, it's a place for people to obtain info and view things that are available to them.

And to discuss any changes and/or reforms where necessary. Now...I think this may have gotten a little bit off hand. If people have an issue of the same person contributing over and over, and then only to make an account just to talk to someone over...this...is absurd. As ☯ǝʞoʇo⊥☯ said, this is not the place for this. (not siding with anyone but may sound bias) ♥šεεçrετ♥ would do any other active contributor would and fill in empty spots, upload images where necessary. As stated in the image policy, higher resolutions and or better zoom is preferred over grainy zoomed out images. However, there is a limit on how big images can be. Currently, the maximum image size is 1024 x 768. If a person decides that current images do not meet standards or is low resolution and does not show enough features/details, then the person can replace it and state the changes in the summary. If another feels that is unnecessary, then that person can revert, as long as they state a valid reason.

Reading the posts, I feel a bit of jealously if not anger? If a group of people do not like a single person who actively contributes, that's their problem. The wiki is a public database for people to search for equipment, weaponry, enchants, and other sorts of information. The wiki is not a place to accuse users of monopolizing the wiki for Fame and/or glory. That's all I have to say.

A friend of mine gave me the link for Team Mari, and I went through it's members. Quite a few of these members are my close friends in-game. They probably joined it just to show what server they're from, and big deal. And yes, I was wondering why you and the last person to harass Seecret here hasn't had many contributions here, or just made accounts to revert or change images to be a pain in the ass. As far as Seecret's list, big deal? I used to have one too. Sure, so what if either of us are proud of something. I'm sure you're proud of your work too. I'm proud of improving a website for the good. I am proud of the help and the involvement I have had here, volunteering, and helping out. I am sure Seecret is too, so why should you care, other people in Team Mari. I do apologize for saying "silly", it's just a generic word I tend to use. But really, if people are so upset, then just contribute. A friend and I here that are on the Mari server probably don't associate ourselves with Team Mari. It doesn't make us any better or any worse than them. And being a part of Team Mari on facebook doesn't make you guys better or worse than us. As long as being a part of the wiki. It doesn't change our superiority. I do really like the post Lexis just put up here as well. Because this is a resource for players from Mabinogi to look up and browse such items and info. There's no reason to make a big fuss over someone who is proud or someone who does a lot of work here. So who really gives a damn? Sorry for the language, but I am trying to not be so crude. But really, you may not say that you're bashing her, but as far as I've seen, various people have, and I'm getting rather bored of it. People who support her are her friends, but maybe do agree with her points. Please don't come here and make a big deal over little things, because she's active or because she's upset a member of Mari. And if I have something to say to Seecret regarding her "attitude" whatever that may be, or dealing with something she does, I personally message her in-game or on Skype and tell her how it is, and she listens. It isn't hard. Doing this all over the wiki just makes you look stupid. Also, Seecret is not on the Alexina server, she's on Tarlach.

Hate to do this to ya', hun, but this is so I can get back to it in the morning. But why did you revert these images? They looked just fine to me. o.o

I got yelled at for doing nudity in images so I reverted them until he could get some without ^^

They look practically the same to me...

I have no idea what's going on with the nudity thing, so I was just going by what people told me before. If there's any problem with it go ahead and revert ^^

I wanted to chime in and say that I did try to find clothes, but they took away from the vambraces, as well as a chunk of the item, so that's why I decided to bare it all. The only reason why I wanted to find clothes was because I didn't know what was going on with the whole 'nudity' thing. Other than that I would've just threw off my clothes, put on the vambraces, and started taking pictures.

I do kind of agree that the old ones were fine, but I feel that when you take a picture of an item indoors, compared to outdoors, it tends to make the item look better. That's the only reason why I wanted to replace the other pictures when I seen them.

And at least it's less apparent that the first version's undergarments. (Which it's not.) I would agree with Seecret on this one.

EDIT: Aaand got ninja'd.

Silana went ahead and e-mailed me pictures of the vambrace. It should fix the current problem.

The part of your hair, the side part thats what i was referring to, or does that not matter that much?(I'm a beginner editor..)

It's not too much of a problem, and I honestly don't think it's worth of uploading a whole new set of images for that little part that doesn't even cause a problem. If it was a BIG HUGE MAMMOTH part of hair, then it'd be a problem xD If you need any tips on images you can look at my page or add me in-game.

Lol okay xD

Check the admin list on the wiki and if you see anyone on IRC, specifically say our names, because it gets our attention more easily. I am around a lot, but not always reading that specific IRC channel.

Oh okay, thanks! Very much appreciated.

Please reupload them with a lowercase .png.
Also your clothing and hair blocks a little bit of the shield in the sheathed image, if you could fix that too it'd be nice.

I was recently hacked, so I can't cover it up all that well. I actually used a Hairband to make the pony lift up a little higher. I don't really think the clothing matters all that much, though. Another thing, I use the snipping tool, which automatically saves as a capital .PNG when I upload to the wiki. I'm honestly sorry for the inconvenience.

Ehh I'd just do put a request to redirect them to a proper file extension.

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/index.php?title=Thread:Talk:Wiki_Home/Default_Item_Coloring Wiki does not allow black/white unless that is the ONLY color the item can be. This was ALSO brought up in the past over the winter 2012 gloves. If it can be dyed, then dye it something that is not black/off-black/white/off-white. Otherwise it will be replaced. For now, Swissed's image is more fitting to the image policy and this is why I reverted it. She still has white/black on the belt and stocking BUT it is only one violation of the black/white rather than 3. Therefore, it is a better image and is a suitable replacement.

Er...I'll just upload a new one myself later, or just send Mew a white dye to redye hers.

There is a talk about this already going on here: [1], please do not revert to something that doesn't even improve it.

Well slightly better zoom vs no black; swissedtoast's would be better. Doesn't matter though since Mew is uploading the new images.

Uploaded version without black/white. Also, 1 white is better than 1 white 2 black; it IS an improvement.

It wasn't that, it just wasn't any better because if your replacing with no black/white...then..no black OR white. xD but as it's taken care of, thank you mew!

Can you crop your character out of the images?

It was said in a post I read that your supposed to keep heads in the images, so I kept some of the head in.

That post was in regards to the bat dress I uploaded (or at least, that was one case where that issue was brought up). The only time the head should be shown is when the screenshot is focused on hats, clothing or robes.. Going by what you said, screenshots of shoes should also show the head then. o-o

Ahah..I see what you did there xD One second, then. (Sorry I just woke up I'm pretty giggly)

Lol, it's fine. I just didn't see a point to the "super zoom" when it ended up seeming less zoomed due to it not being cropped.

Yea I understand what you mean ^^ Thank you for your advice! Your the kind of person I like on the wiki because you don't automatically assume other things and just go right out and ask for an improvement. I only do super zoom if it really needs it, although I've made a few mistakes I wish I could go back in time to fix.

No problem. There's no point beating around the bush for a paragraph or two just to get to the point of saying "change it." o3o

Don't worry about it being black. It's fine since it comes in black and the name clearly states it's black

Alright ><

It's not dyeable? I've seen pictures of pink ones on Nexon's website.

It is. only problem is...who would dye equipment that expires? x.x? (just personal preference)

The point is, regardless if it comes in black or not, the black must go in gallery and the dyed version should be the actual photos.

I have actually dyed mine, but only because my clothing is here until November, although I don;t think that makes any difference to change it.

Hopefully this won't end up being like the 2012 winter gloves all over again >_>;...

The tattoo varies in color when you buy it while everything else is fixed as black/white. However, every part of it can be dyed, so technically the only place for the black/white version is in the gallery. I'd say use SwissedToast's images until someone can get a screenshot of one without any black or white on it (basing this off of who has less issues with their clothing colors; seecret has black and white while swissedtoast only has white).

Actually, the tattoo comes in black o.o, and since the outfit does say black in it, it does seem acceptable for the default colors to be shown ^^; as Lexis said.

Actually, if you go into the shop, there are 2 versions for sale. The only difference is the duration. Compare the colors of the tattoos on both of them, and they'll be different. The one I bought had the tattoo an olive green color to begin with.

Tattoo aside, the same could be said for the 2012 winter wear, sailor set, and a few other things. Given the fact that the outing set can be dyed to begin with, the default colors belong in the galleries while the dyed versions should be used on the regular page. How did 4 posts get in befo-nevermind.. -facepalms-

No, that's not the point, 90% of the players won't be using it in black. And the point of images are to show how an item looks, including the texture details.

So then why doesn't someone make a gallery for it before reverting to an image which also has white in it o.o?

If you ask me...everyone i've seen has it either in all white, or all black. I'd just leave the default somewhere until someone dyes the set in alternative colors...course we could just place simulator images...

I'm not aware of any image revisions. o .o' I just saw this thread.

There wasn't any o.o not that I saw...at any rate I would leave it as is since that's how it was ment to be. The details are shown enough. (at least from my standpoint)

So with this..comes our conclusion! >:D (sorry always wanted to say that)

Seecret uploaded her black and white version of the wear first, then SwissedToast uploaded one that was yellow and white, saying that there was no black in it. Then Seecret reverted it back with the reason saying that it was the default color or something like that o 3o. (mustgetlastwordin8D)

You know what...I think an admin needs to decide this...personally the black shows up rather nicely.

uhhh, I'm just going to direct you to here[1] (that or scroll down the discussion page)

I think most of what you're asking about was mentioned here. The only thing it lacks is an admin getting involved.

It looks like a hassle for the angles of it, but perhaps you should do the the picture with the black backround to show the little spotlight, but your choice :D.

poiugyi D:<! It wasn't mine, unfortunately x.x Also, you can't really get the substantial zoom with a black background. Zoom is needed for details, and unfortunately with the angles that it has it would be even worse zoom than ever xD

Ah alright then :).

The zoom thing, fine. My browser was messing up that day so the image you uploaded looked like the other one that was uploaded. However, that comment about the character being overweight, not so much. Giants are naturally that "overweight" >>

Oh I didn't realize it was a giant o.o xD

I hope you don't mind but I replaced the image of the earrings because they were saved as a jpeg but also it was kinda hard to see the wing part of the earrings. :( sorry.

Oh no it's okay I was waiting for someone to replace! I sold mine a while after those were taken and I wasn't as skilled at taking images for the wiki at that time >< it doesn't matter who gets the image so thank you!

No problem. :)

Can you upload the inventory icon for the pearl shine drops too? The current ones are from the Japanese wiki.

Sure thing.

Testing one, two, three. -points down-

3

LOL a heart xD.... sorry that made me laugh hard how did you do thattttt!

I recall reading somewhere that images in signatures were no longer allowed, but it's not in the policy.

I saw one somewhere on a discussion page. It was of an Incubus, and it was 50x50px, so I didn't know I couldn't. But if Kevin or Angevon tell me otherwise, I can remove it. C:

[1]

Oh okay.

Do you think you can retake those pictures with a more normal sized head? The hood on images are looking very weird...

That..is a normal sized head o.o the only thing that changed is the body size since it is a small character. When a character ages, the head never changes size xD

Actually that's the default head size...head size (For some estrange reason) does not change with age as much as your body does. That's why your head is generally larger than than your body when a mini potion is used. Don't ask me why, ask devcat why the model's head is so big @@

Sorry. I meant normal head-to-body ratio. Because [1] is really creeping me out.

That's just the normal head xD it is creepy..

Oh that...for some reason that robe (along with many) seem to look "skin-tight" or is made so that it fits pretty close to the character model. Older ages doesn't make that happen in most cases.

I know that! I'm just saying, I feel that it's not aesthetically pleasing in the least, and would rather the picture taken be of an older age so it can do the robe justice. Right now it looks like some sort of...alien..type..thing. Eugh.

Edit: I'm not saying that the picture is inaccurate in any way. I'm just saying that since it has no age restrictions, shouldn't it be taken at an age where there are the least distortions?

Well, you know, I thought this wouldn't be a problem x.x so I already dyed my robe..which has black and white :x

Instead of going back and forth changing the images, I would like for you to show me the reasons why you reverted it. I compared both your photo and mine and saw nothing different. It was fine in the first place. I didn't even see an outline either, plus the angles were both okay.

You had outline rendering on, which isn't preferred over an image that has outline rendering off. My images had a better zoom and also had no cat ears which could be mistaken for part of the set. In the Image Policy it states it is preferred that no other items besides the items your taking the images for should be in the image. Also, according to a tag your images were .jpg saved as .png, and I could see some grainy bits in the image itself.

Well I could take a picture of it and show you it was saved as a .png I do see that with the cat ears it could be mistaken, but you could have told me with that. You pretty much are all over wiki and contributed a bunch of things. Others should get a chance to show their characters. I made a wiki to pitch in and help. Other faces should be seen.

The wiki is not for fame, it's not the faces that need to be seen, it's the items that the images are being taken of. It doesn't matter how many contributions a user may have, as long as the wiki is being helped. I only volunteer TO help this wiki and the number of images I have up should not be a problem.

You say that the wiki isn't for fame, but you have a list of contributions/edits that you've made. This would normally be fine, but when you edit a page by just uploading better screenshots, then saying it's done on your list, it only makes it look like you're trying to take the fame for the entire page yourself (even if that isn't your intention). That's how I see it anyway o-o;

I'm just going to quickly point something out for both images.

@Vanstina: You had outline rendering on which, although it may reveal some details that would've normally been left out, it takes away from the quality of your screenshot.

@Seecret: The only issue that I really see with your screenshot of the set is that your character's hair is blocking only a small portion of the dress (but still technically blocking). This also applies to the screenshots of the dress itself (front and side view). Mind wearing a hat for those like you did the back and side view of the dress?

Others would love to pitch in and help too, I counted some of your contributes and it is already over one hundred and I'm not even half way down the list. That is what I meant, not the fame part. Plus, nothing was wrong with the photo. All I have left to assume why you changed it was because you prefer yourself there. I may be wrong, that's why I am assuming. I would like to know why though. (If you are wondering, this shouldn't be a reason to dislike you. There is no reason to like or dislike you).

I am no longer replying to this discussion, please read the top of my discussion page for the reason why.

@Seecret: Better yet, just use a short haired character. I tend to hate images that use headgear to remove long hair when it is not part of the outfit.

@Vanstina: Since your images have headgear that did not belong with the set, it was a perfect canidate for replacement by the first person who comes along. Set images should not contain any other equipment outside of the set.

In my opinion, a simple solution for this entire argument is that: Vanstina should take off outline rendering and her headgear...

@TheFarix- I did notice that and I do agree with you and Seecret on that. I changed it now if you agree that it is better. @Yinato- My character (not my sister's character that I did use) has the semi-natural bun hair I did use for it. Check now if you think it is better than before.

The hair that your character is using is better (at least it's not distracting) but could you zoom in on it a bit more? It still looks a bit rough in some areas.

Oh my, I finally understand what you mean. I was very confused on the outline rendering part, now I took it off and ready to fix it.

Seecret can you please stop reverting the images? The problem with the screenshots that you took is that the screenshots are not consistent. Some of them have your character wearing a hat (which you shouldn't be wearing since it's a screenshot of the set) and some of them have your not wearing the hat, but your character's hair is blocking parts of the dress (not the armband) and can be distracting.

The hat on the back and angled views is cropped off, because it helps keep the hair away which was preferred in the image policy. For the side view, the hair really isn't blocking anything on the side that it is showing. The front view may be replaced, although only a teensy weensy bit of the hair is covering one little strap, and apparently that's horribly wrong according to you.

Actually, the only thing "horribly wrong" to me with this situation is the fact that instead of uploading newer versions of the screenshots and avoiding a reverting war, images keep getting reverted to previous verions that have already had their flaws point out.

"The front view may be replaced, although only a bit of hair is covering one strap." You also forgot the fact that the hair can be distracting. (I took out some of the useless words in the quote since all those words did was justify your screenshots, even though there are issues with them)

I have never had a complaint about my hair being "distracting", it is part of the game and that's like saying anyone with hair is distracting? As long as the hair does not cover a big part of the outfit, it is fine.

Scroll up and you'll see me mentioning that bit about distracting hair in a reply to Vanstina's message. Try not to blow things out of proportions. You're taking what I said about one picture and applying it to everything.

"As long as the hair does not cover a big part of the outfit, it is fine." So what you're trying to say is that even if someone were to take screenshots of the set that is of equal quality/zoom to yours, but it doesn't have any part of the set blocked by hair, they shouldn't replace your image (since it isn't a big deal to you, and it's only a teensy weensy bit blocked)?

It shouldn't have to BE replaced since nothing is wrong with it o.o

"The front view may be replaced, although only a teensy weensy bit of the hair is covering one little strap" That quote kind of says otherwise. >.>; If there was nothing wrong with the screenshots, then this wouldn't have started in the first place.

That aside, images get replaced if there's a better version available. Whether it's due to consistency issues, lighting, color of the gear, resolution, zoom, the list goes on. There may not be anything wrong with an image - until someone uploads a better one. (That's if there's nothing wrong with a screenshot that's getting replaced)

Just went through this and noticed how utterly pointless most of this was. Yes, Vanstina, your photos were first off jpeg images, as that is against the policy, well as having other equipment but the set you are capturing. However, in some images when people use headgear to cover hair, that can be cut off as Seecret did to add focus to her photos. Additionally, she uses great super-zoom to show off detail on the clothing in these images and her others. I too have a link to my contributions, however that shouldn't mean that we have these links or lists for fame, this simply means we are proud of the help we have brought to the wiki. Users like myself, Seecret, Swissedtoast, Angevon, and Lexis have quite a few contributions, and so what? Mabinogi is constantly getting new content, clothing, items, etc to it, on top of that, you should really check out the categories on the ends of some pages that need photos, dye details, repair details, market details, and more. I am sure there are users that browse around these categories to update information just so it's there for players to see. Yes, this is free volunteer work, and I love helping out just as much as the next person. I am sure you do, and so does Seecret. Who really cares who has more or less contributions. Therefor, there is more than enough ways for people to contribute to the wiki and there always will be. Anyway, back to the pictures. Seecret's hair may be showing as in the back photo of the set, however, I looked at them, and as far as I can see, it shouldn't matter. The photo is focused on the back of the set, and her hair is showing on the front, and not covering it at all. As I said before, her photos have great zoom and have large quality for people to see close up details, and they're not small like yours. Hers still do fit the policy and have. Revert wars in general are silly as it is, and once there is a set of photos up that fit the policy, then they should be left alone and remain unchanged. I don't think I have anything else to say here, so I'm just going to leave this now.

I heard twice that it is saved as a .jpeg picture, but when I checked for myself it was .png Not only that, but the hair does show. It is no problem if someone else has a character with short hair and could take a picture, nothing to be upset about. Plus for the back one, I do see there is a hat there. Why doesn't anyone complain to her about having a headgear on? Back on the hair, nothing to be fusing over. It is in the way and my picture did contain a female character with the right set and shorter hair.

To clear the beginning part up, yes I was upset about the "fame" thing. It is cleared up now, so no need to bring it up again.

I think they meant that the image was originally a jpg and was then saved as a png. It has to do with the quality of the picture. For the pictures with a hat being worn, it is technically okay as long as it's cropped out (which defeats the whole purpose of showing the clothing set in my opinion, even if there's no hat included in it.) The issue I pointed out about the images as a whole is that they were inconsistent since some of the angles showed a hat being worn while other angles didn't.

We knew it was .jpg because as soon as I replaced the tag was taken off by Angevon. The back view is cropped so that the hat doesn't fully show, making it not a part of the shot, which is also why nobody complains about headgear being on, especially when it is to cover up the hair just like the wiki's image policy states you should do. Once again, a tiny piece of hair in the front on the strap should NOT matter at all, and isn't worth replacing. I'd suggest to stop this silly reverting nonsense especially when it's already been dealt with.

I can't tell if the comment about reverting was directed at me (seeing as how you were bringing things up that I said that didn't pertain to the recent question). If it wasn't, then skip the next part: Vanstina asked questions and wanted clarification, so I answered. End of story. If anything, you're the one trying to start this up again since you keep mentioning the same things over and over again when we already know your point of view on the matter.

If there's an image of better quality, it'll replace the current one, and I've already listed some reasons earlier as to why your images can be replaced, besides the issues with the covering of the dress. But in case you missed it: your images are inconsistent.

I already asked if you to retake them if possible (scroll all the way up).

It wasn't directed at you, we replied to this discussion at the same time x.x Also, the only thing you stated was the hair which isn't a problem at all, seeing as it's merely blocking a tiny part of one strap in the FRONT view image. Inconsistent would be different colored pajama sets and different backgrounds, or different looking characters, not just because some have hats and some don't. When the wiki image policy stated that you have a hat worn to crop hair, it didn't mean to use that hat on ALL images, only if it's covering a big amount of the item you are currently doing an image for. If you are saying that these images are inconsistent because of the hat then you are completely going against that statement.

Thank you Anemki for fixing them!

You're welcome, dearie. Was getting a little fed up and it needed to end. <3

Lol, I didn't notice the timestamp on yours. Anyway, the images are cropped inconsistently, and if needed, I can list other reasons too >>. Think about this though: had you just used an alt with shorter hair, or just even recropped the ones that didn't have a hat on, shortly after the first dispute then most of this could've been avoided, as opposed to constantly reverting to older images (doesn't just apply to you).

Also, saying/typing something =/= doing something, so I haven't really gone against the policy in that sense...though I do recall you going against (and justifying it) a statement within the policy when we had that discussion about the 2012 winter gloves o -o;

I never said you went against the policy..o.o and this discussion is finished. Also, I couldn't reupload new ones because I had already dyed my wear, and it has black and white on it.

Actually I forgot to hit save page with my previous comment, hence the 30 min time gap (Was cooking at the time, sorry). But yes, this discussion is over and hopefully it'll stay that way this time o-e...

How do you manage to get close up zoom? I thought all the zoom-mods died out long ago. :(

Well, it's not a mod I've actually never used mods ^^; but if you want to learn how it's actually quite easy. There is a short guide on my page about it, but a longer and more detailed guide would be on one of LexisMikaya's pages!

Also, zoom mods still exist.

Abusing the screenshot mode is fun...made a small video on this guide on headgear and shoes camera setups.

See, told you, Lexis the master of image guides! >:D lol

No i'm not .o.;; I'm just used to making screenshots like that since I never heard of the existence of zoom mods :x until now...but anyways, this method is a bit "unorthodox" to some, but it does cover everything for basic screen captures at uncompressed qualities.

Oh I see o3o Thanks oodles

The reason why I replaced the images of the gloves was because the trim was white. Although the gloves are white by default, they can be dyed a different color. This also applies to the individual items from the Sailor Set and the Halloween Vampire Set.

But there's a difference, the other sets have an image gallery for the colors they come in at first. The 2012 set does not have it so it shouldn't be applied to it unless the image gallery is added.

Okay, image gallery aside, does the policy not state "Do not use a black or white color scheme. Even if only one part of the item is dyed black or white, we don't want it"? The fact is that the images you uploaded of the gloves (and all other parts of the set) have white on them. Mind you, the white can be dyed to a different color. There's a difference between not being able to dye a part and not wanting to dye over a default color.

I understand that, but for premium wear, we were told that default color was allowed. Recently, for some premium wears, we were given an image gallery, though, for the default colors to go into the gallery, and non-original colors to go onto the page instead. For the 2012 winter wear, this gallery wasn't made yet, which means the images that have default color are allowed there until the gallery is made and the images are moved.

Why not just make the gallery then? I'll go figure out how to.

I have to chime in for a minute, because techincally, those other sets mentioned came in specific colors for ALL who acquired them from the cards. The 2012 Winter set came in an assortment of colors based off of the features you selected, so it shouldn't have an image gallery for the 'default' colors. I just thought I should point that out. So with taking that into consideration, the images need to be changed because they contain white on the clothing which violates the image policy.

The bottom line is that there was white on the gloves, so I uploaded images that didn't have white trim and were slightly more zoomed in(a bit besides the point, but if you want to get technical...) Either way, the images that you uploaded originally would've been replaced (if not redirected) if/when the gallery is added, so reverting it the first time back to your images was a bit redundant.

Alright, although I still don't understand this :/

So would that mean every item in the set minus those gloves you uploaded need new icons and pictures?

• sigh*

I'll start tagging...

Well I honestly really don't think it would since they came that way for everyone..but okay :/ apparently not

I would say that even though the fur lining on all of the items is originally white, it is a dyeable part so I'd think that they'd need to be changed. If it wasn't able to be dyed I'd say otherwise.

Also, I forgot about the boots during my first post. Those could have an image gallery, because I believe everybody's boots were the same colors when they used their card. I know mine, and my three friends all recieved the same boots from our cards. I'm not entirely sure if that's the case with the boots, but I do know that I seen a lot of people with the same colored boots as the ones I got.

I have a question. Are there any details that are hidden by the fur being white? After all, the purpose of the "no white or black" rule is because those two colors can hide details in the outfit. If there are no details being hidden, then we should use some common sense and use the original coloring of the item since that is the color most players are likely to see the item in, even if it can be died.

Judging by the new female gloves that were uploaded, I'd say that there are a lot of tiny details that you can't see while the fur is left undyed. Put the images side by side, and you can tell how much the details of the fur are left out when it's left in the original color.

The boots that I got were greyish originally. Also, the details on the trim of the gloves are also present on the wear and the boots if you dyed them a different color.

Oh okay. So then that means that all of the boots didn't come in the same color then. I wasn't really sure if they did or not, which means that I was just unlucky with the boots I recieved...

Also, since I feel like the above post was about my previous reply, I will share this picture with everybody. [1] If you can sit there and say that the details in the new picture, compared to the previous picture, show the same amount of details in the pictures for ALL of the other items in this item's set, then obviously I have wasted precious time out of my own life to sit here and comment on such trivial matters. I'm out.

Um not quite itachi. When I said that the detail on the trim of the gloves are also present on the wear and the boots, I meant that if you dyed it to something other than white, the same details on the gloves I uploaded would also be there, meaning that there is a noticable difference between the two...o-o;

Itachiphan, the thing I'm saying that there appears to be some people who are replacing/removing images just because they contain black or white while completely forgetting the whole point of why black and white are not desirable colors. If there are no details being hidden by the black or white color, then it doesn't need to be replaced. This actually goes for all other colors too. If a particular color is hiding details in the item, then the image should be replace with one dyed a color that shows the details.

Wouldn't it be better to set a strong standard of absolutely no black or white in images, than get entangled in a web of explanations and justifications? At least with the current policy, there can be no second guessing. The probability of black or white hiding details is higher than not, and I'd rather not have to explain constantly to uploaders why someone else's picture is allowed to be black, but theirs isn't.

No. If you cannot explain why an image should not contain black or white beyond "it's black" or "it's white", then it shows that replacing the image is probably not necessary.

I agree with most of what Oneris is saying. But I'm going to assume he/she meant to include the exception regarding items that come in specific colors, such as items from gachas, event, etc. If anything, the policy should outline that black and white is only acceptable in the image gallery of items, and only if it's a preset color. So if it can be dyed, it shouldn't be black or white if it's going to be used as the display image on the item's main page.

@Farix, with the current policy, it's stated pretty bluntly that a why isn't really necessary. What you're saying would mean revising the image policy, which I think is necessary regardless of our point of views on the subject regarding black/white on items. The policy should be used as an outline, but I've seen quite a few issues come up from the current one (besides this one).

Is there a way for you to take screenshots with the hood down as well? If you already dyed it to your own colors then I can use my own, I'd just prefer seeing the same color combination for the aesthetics on the page x3;

I'm just suggesting it because it was also done for the Vanalen Rain Set and it is nice to see on the wiki that the hood can be taken off x3.

I knew this would happen, so I took images of it with hood down at the same time while I waited for the hood down to be available. Once someone adds the hood down parts to it I can upload my images there.

You can edit the template by putting in |isRobe=y (or anything else) to make the hood down sections available.

(However, this gets rid of the angled images and renames the images needed, so you'll need to upload all of them again on second thought, just put in a delete template with a move request (if you are using this method).)

Oh okay, well I learn something everyday it seems! :)

Aw, I liked the angled images. Thing we can get those added to the robe template as well?

Would it be possible to include the hood down for the set image as well? Using the Rain set as an idea for how to do it x3

@Oneris - you can bring the idea up on the template talk page, if you like. There may have been a reason behind not having an angled picture with robes, though I don't know it.

@XMewxBerryx - I was actually referring to the set images, since when I got to the 2012 Premium Winter Newbie Wear (F)/(M) pages, it already had the |isRobe= parameter defined. (That's why I said "renames the images needed", before, since the set page already had some images with filenames that becomes incorrect if said parameter was used.)

Yes, this method can be used in the 2012 Premium Winter Newbie Wear Set pages as well, though the Vanalen Rain Set idea also works.

Oh well I only mentioned the set in that post since I noticed the main item page was already updated but the set had not, my mistake!

-edit- and that is curious, why do robes not have angled images? Page width maybe?

I could touch them up so that the images are attached...

Alright, thank you so much and sorry for bothering you too much about it! x3

The only thing that bothers me about it is that if I choose to do the colliding images thing like the Rain Slicker, the user who uploaded the male images would have to do the same.

Yes they would, but it also gives players the full spectrum for the item set. If that person already dyed their item then another user may have one that has not been dyed and can snap another screenshot quite easily ^^;

They stretch the page. It's...a nuisance to the eye. Is it possible to keep the lovely large image, but make it smaller on the preview? (Like Mikaya's hebona shoes) Thanks!

Err if someone can resize it somehow so that the preview fits?