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Um shouldnt there be a Monster Database for Morgant? Esras also has both the NPC and the Monster Database. ~ Shadowboy132
I just did this dungeon yesterday, and I noticed he kept teleporting to each of us, isn't this Final Hit? - User: MasterRyan January 7, 2009 11:09 AM EST
thx User: MasterRyan December 8, 2009, 10:18 AM EST
- No, Morgant is a human. --Jerl 22:42, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Morgant = Lugh
Morgant is truly Lugh Lavada. May I ask that we redirect any resource of Lugh towards this page? ~ Darkblade
- No. It's a spoiler for a reason. --Jαy 01:10, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
- Buuut... This page is a spoiler page already... ~~Darkblade
|Thread title||Replies||Last modified|
|Curse||9||22:14, 7 May 2014|
|Morgant = Human||12||16:28, 4 March 2014|
|Generation 3 Quote||1||01:04, 29 December 2012|
|Minor Disagreement||1||18:47, 10 December 2012|
|Family||3||19:35, 27 September 2011|
Since the Saga, is it possible that Tarlach's and Ruairi's cursed got switched around?
- Tarlach getting "I see someone who will have to give up everything": ever since he sealed himself up in his frosty prison he pretty much had lost his life and couldn't do anything aside from change into a bear and eat mana herbs, not to mention that Cichol made him give up mana. During Saga he gave up humanity to betray Milletians and he sacrificed everything - his present life, his memories, his research, etc. - to drive away Macha before turning into a kid.
- Ruairi getting "There's also one who will live in physical and mental agony forever": the trauma of losing Rian and Triona had a deep effect on his mind and fighting off the curse and everyone in his way would be affecting his body. Millia's appearance also plays mind tricks with Ruairi, and her "betrayal" could have had more mental affects on him. And, finally, his prosthetic arm probably leads to more effects on physical agony.
- Obviously neither of them got "There's also someone who gets what he or she wants but won't be able to handle it", since Tarlach never got his paradise and Ruairi never got his Triona.
Wasn't get what he or she wants, but wont be able to handle it Mari? You'd think Tarlach would have sorted Ruairi out on all the details he misunderstood or something.
I think Mari is the one who gives up everything since she gave up being a human and her own will to the gods. Tarlach is the one who suffers physical and mental agony for all eternity: this one is pretty easy since he went from having the curse of being a bear during the day, to forcibly aging himself then forcibly regressing his age and his mental state back to a 10 year old, while He has to realize he doesn't have the power to save the erinn and those who inhabit it. Lastly Ruari who gets what he wants but won't be Able to handle it, and this is easy to pin point since Ruari typically wanted power to protect those who was precious to him and the power to defy his destiny. (though we don't know his true destiny is, it could vary from dying or serving under the gods) But we can really understand why he can't handle this power, since even though he gains a lot of power over the generations, it seems he's never been able to master it or truly control it a good , since no matter how much power he gets he's never been able to master it. The easiest way to figure this out is during his roleplay as a dragon knight in g18 how he wields a huge weapon at his size is impressive, but he swings it around like a blunt weapon, slowly and inefficiently, not only that it seems that he hasn't learned a variance in skills besides magic and he forgets basic things like making a campfire. If he had actually used a weapon that was more suited for him he could actually be a more excellent swordsman.
Like I said, "get what he or she wants but won't be able to handle it" is neither Ruairi nor Tarlach, since they never did get what they wanted. Mari, on the other hand, was dying to know the truth of her birth and parents (and funny enough it literally happened) and had trauma over her, which is why she refuses to speak about her past.
We don't exactly know all the details of what Tarlach told Ruairi. The only thing we get is that Tarlach told Ruairi that there's a possibility of resurrecting Triona using Lia Fail, and their past conversations just stop right there.
Okay, so, what exactly are you trying to get at. I don't see the switch.
At least that's what happened in Chapter 1. But because of Saga, the curse seems to have taken a whole another route.
I've always question the page's referral of the curses. I always thought that Mari is the one who will have to give up everything because she had to give up her previous
loli life and turn into Nao and become the Soul Stream's errand girl and an MMORPG's mascot. Ruairi should have been the one who gets what he or she wants but won't be able to handle it because he gets the Dark Knight power but he gets whacked by the Milletian and abducted by Cromm Cruaich. Tarlach is obviously in physical and mental agony because he can't survive outside while not in Bear form and needs Mana Herbs to live.
Also this is Morgant's prediction. The past of the heroes shouldn't have mattered, and I think Ruairi didn't care about not having become a Paladin. Besides, that wasn't "everything" for him anyway.
Mari might also have been "physical and mental agony" due to all that changes to her body, her dead parents, her presumably dead friends, her guardian angel status, her loner status, how Morrighan was being an ass to Milletians and Mari couldn't do anything about it, and so forth.
What if Morgant jinxed the curses so that it not only affected one of them, but all of them?
Either way, it's wrong to say any one of them is any one of the three curses. If it is said anywhere, it should be undone immediately as that is player interpretation.
If he declared himself human during G2, then Morgant is human. Lugh can be left undeclared since there's there a bunch of crap that pretty much makes it unclear. Triona should also be declared human as well, or half breed. I have no idea on Triona.
Hmm, you have a point on separating Morgant and Lugh. But did it ever actually say Triona was half human or half fomor, or was it assumed because it said she is not full breed and she is acceptabed by neither culture? I could be Iraqi and not accepted in Brazil or Russia, that doesn't mean I'm half Brazilian and half Russian. (Very random example but you know what I mean.)
No, it's like this:
- Father is declared human
- Fomors and Humans hate her except morgant/Lugh
- By definition and logical deduction, she is a half-breed and it is probably considered Taboo.
I'm not saying that she is, but all we can deduce just using the in-game text is that she is a child of fomorian origin. Even the course of G2, it was a kidnapping of a fomor child. Triona can also be left unclear.
Really? I had a completely different take on it. Morgant was already siding with Cichol when Redire found a baby in fomor territory (can't remember if it was in a dungeon or whatever), took it back with him (under the assumption that the fomors kidnapped the infant), only to have Morgant tell him that the baby is his. I also thought that Esras only told the public that it was a fomor child in order to save Redire's reputation after his blunder.
Oh, and 1 small flaw with that logical deduction; The premises that you used could also point to her being human. Since she's human, fomors hate her. But she also grew up around fomors/"lives" in dungeons (guilty by association mentality), so humans hate her.
All you can say with certainty is that she's part of one twisted family lol >_>;
Lexis, I agree with almost all of your points. This is what concerns me, "all we can deduce just using the in-game text is that she is a child of fomorian origin", don't you mean human oirigin, if we're going by bloodline? What are you referring to, Ruairi's line when they first met?
As well, I don't think Humans actually KNOW what Fomors look like. Humans thought Andras was a Fomor because of her ears, back when Iria was kept secret from non-traders. I'm not saying all do, but I moreso think Fomor is used as a term for outsider, rather than a litteral species, most of the time. That is assuming there is such a species called a Fomor, and not just a collection of cultures. the only way we can say Triona is a Fomor is if she specifically says she's a Fomor (if she says she's a Human later, in my opinion, we should say neither Human nor Fomor and state that both are said, until clarified if she is mix breed, if she somehow got a species change, etc.) Unfortunitely, that will never happen unless they have a flashback of when she was alive. The only other way is if we get an actual definition on what "Fomor" means, its up for interpretation right now so it's very confusing.
One last thing, her father being human doesn't mean she has to have any human blood, this is a freaking phantasy game. Thus far, this is what I think should be done: Morgant should be called a Human on his page, since it specifically refers to himself as a Human once in the game and no other references to his species in that form. Lugh on the other hand should say unclear and explain why (like what I did). Triona should say Unclear/Unknown as well, we can say she is the daughter of a human, and she was possibly mistaken for a Fomor. We cannot have any definites on any of these NPCs but Morgant, since, in my personal opinion, social background facts like species should not be up for interpretation. In these kind of cases, you shouldn't be avoiding technicalities, technicalities are what is important.
I'll shut up now, it feels like all I ever do now days is stalk/annoy talk pages and work on minor projects.
Rereading what I was able to record for that recap thing:
Yeah. Pretty much child of Fomorian origin.
Ah, I see your point there.
Oh and just to add on to the definition of Fomor point, do we actually know why Ruairi suspects her of being a Fomor? Because she's in a dungeon? Because she has red eyes? (A lot of NPCs, such as Alissa and Ferghus have red eyes.) Is it because of the clothing she wears? (That symbol on her necklace is repeatedly acknowledged to be Druid in Mabinogi. Only in Vindictus has it ever been said to be Fomor.) Is it one of those things where we are just left in the dark as to what makes Fomors distinguishable? For all I know, Fomors could have an insanely deep voice, even little girls, and that's how Ruairi was able to tell. (Enjoy that mental image.)
All this stuff is giving me a headache... I want to kill whoever designed this.
Ruairi suspecting her as a Fomor:
Then in the next cutscene:
Nope, they don't tell us why.
Insanely deep voice? I know that's true for Shakarr and Verafim in Vindictus, but Verafim's voice is pretty light when he speaks English.
I stalk talk pages too. Don't feel bad about that.
Wait, so Ruairi DOESN'T think Triona looks like a Fomor? Why the heck does he suspect her then?!
And the deep voice thing wasn't serious. . _.
I thought Triona was disliked because Humans hated Fomors and vise versa. IIRC Ruairi originally refused her help because he believed she was Fomor. In G3 Strategy Guide, Kristell and James call her a "baby Fomor".
I'll look through the Strategy Guide again later on.
Also on the note of separation, would it be okay to strip every mention of Lugh outside of the spoiler boxes on Morgant's page, and vise versa? Other "identities" lack such.
Morgant's main focus should be about Morgant himself and vice versa for Lugh. I mean, look at Fortinbras and Marcellus. Fortinbras' main focus is of him, and lacks anything out that the small mention of Marcellus. Even Marcellus says he landed a role in a play or something like that when you talk to him. Though that's not much of a spoiler, the concept I'm trying to get across is treating them as two separate entities.
I don't understand what it means...
Gods came back starting from Generation 10, but 'we' didn't run into Morgant...
"Morgant stated that the heroes would "live forever in the curse", however it was only temporary."
Except that Ruairi is still God-knows-where with no friends, Tarlach is still a bear by day and a human by night that can't leave the Altar of Druids lest he dies, and Nao will never talk to you about anything pertaining to Mari or Generation 1.
I'm going to remove this line in the meantime.
Isn't Morgant somehow Elatha's father, which technically makes him Neamhain's husband and she becomes Triona's mommy?
Then again, I don't really understand family bloodline traits...
No. That's a snowball-effect rumor that seems to contaminating everyone's brains! They are not related!
- Elatha is the son of Neamhain.
- Triona is the daughter of Morgant.
Not True (Fanonical):
- Elatha is the son of Morgant.
- Triona is the daughter of Neamhain.
Then... How is Elatha related to Morgant? Elatha did say Morgant did something to his birth pact. Don't forget the image in the credits; Morgant holding baby Elatha.
I just said he isn't... What he is speaking of is his delivery to the Incubi. Find me valid proof that they are related, if you can. I did C3 2.5 times now and have yet to see any such proof, it was just built up in people's minds. And even if Morgant is Elatha's father. That does not make Neamhain Triona's mother or Neamhain Morgant's husband.