Category talk:Skills

Any thoughts to adding a combat power table into the stat tables for skills? Most likely just the cumulative per level.

• That's a very good idea. We could add it to the little summary table that's at the beginning of each article. In addition, there's still work to be done for each training section; for certain ones that require reading books or learning from a person, we should not only change the engrishy title to the correct one, but also say where the book can be found, how much it costs, if there is an associated quest, etc. --Reverie 09:58, 24 February 2008 (PST)

Elves and Giants

I think that there should probably be separate lists for elves and giants from the human skills. Each race seems to have different requirements for skills For example, LB is 6 ap for elves and 5 ap for humans to hit rF. Magnum is 0 AP for elves and 1 ap for humans to hit rF. And i believe that the effects may also be different. --Sinnoaria 21:34, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I believe magnum has the same effect between elves and humans, just ap cost is different. I believe most of the effects between the races are added now anyway. Might want to double check that although. slayer1o1 17:29, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Full Training

On the training method sections there's nothing about full training. I can't tell if the numbers it gives are for being able to rank up the skill or if they are for getting the full training bonus.

The numbers under training method currently detail what is needed to train the skill; a cumulative 100 points allows advancement. We could, in the near future, edit the template to show details regarding full training bonuses. If anything, we should eventually add some sort of writeup concerning training in general into this categorical article. --Reverie 16:17, 28 February 2008 (PST)

Hey, shouldn't there be a note saying you need 100 points to upgrade the skill? Took be about a year to figure that out. Mind I wasn't on much, but still... [literally, 45 weeks.]Novaix 08:03, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

First Aid

You know, I learned first aid by just using a bandage. I didn't have to visit what's his face in Dunbarton while in Deadly status.

I believe right-clicking a bandage and using it will give you the skill, however it is also possible to receive treatment from any healer and they should teach you the skill. I believe you must do the latter to advance it to rank F however. slayer1o1 17:29, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Skill list page?

It takes a person three pages to navigate until they reach some of the skill pages which I find a bit tiring. How about a list page with all the skills on one page? Then you can put all the skills in the skill category. Fifty 23:19, 25 April 2008 (PDT)

I made a Skill List page now. Should I replace the entire categorization scheme with it? --- Angevon 15:52, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

It could still use some work (Not Implemented should be last category not second, several of the skills listed in Special Skills should be in Not Implemented, Zero AP Skills could simply be given a footnote on there first listings, and some sort of disclaimer could be added to the Not Implemented section stating that all release dates are estimates only), but its vastly superior to whats there now--Jacobpaige 16:09, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Cap on Skills?

Should there be a note about it so ppl will know what in the english ver right now?

Incarnate

The skill Incarnate should be up there.

Skill CP

Should we add skill CP into the summary chart for every skill like what is on Critical Hit's page? ---Angevon

It would be better if both skill and stat CP were added as it was done on Windmill's page--Jacobpaige 01:39, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

dan ranks

i heard some skills have 3 extra ranks after rank 1 in the asian servers. why dont we have info about those in the charts here?Sozen Cratos Focker 22:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

table by attribute given

would it be possible/wise to make a table for what each skill gives upon rank up? for example, combat mastery and sharp mind both give hp? if someone could throw out opinions that would be great slayer1o1 18:53, 27 March 2009 (UTC

i noticed Jacobpaige had a really nice table on dex. that is something like I am talking about. I dont know if they are already there in a different place although. slayer1o1 18:55, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

perfect skill training bonus

should we add the full training bonuses for each rank to the charts for each skill? Sozen Cratos Focker 16:43, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I dont think I fully understand what you are asking. If you mean what you get for perfectly training a skill its just the exp you earned for training the skill multiplied by two I believe. If you could clarify what you are asking that would be great. slayer1o1 17:24, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Redoing images of "Skills in Action."

Was flipping through all of the articles and realized that a lot of the images that showed skills being used by players were not of quality and/or not very attractive. Had a brief conversation with Angevon that, yes, images on skill pages are enticing, and may pull more interest since people love pictures. However, remember to make sure that these images:

1. Do not include your IGN (use Ctrl + N).
2. Aren't edited poorly in simple applications such as MS Paint.
3. Accurately and aesthetically convey the skill.

I have deleted, and will soon be replacing images that do not fall under that criteria.

Also, I'll be writing up a policy on image quality very soon. Hopefully that will help. Feel free to ask questions or complain about this topic to me =p - Powder Rune 05:02, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh, puh-leez. Your picture's quality is low too. Maybe even worse. --Kevin (‧_Ta^lk‧) 05:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't necessarily talking about compression if that's what you mean. Screenshots from the game are already terribly compressed once made. Plus, with the resolutions that I've uploaded, putting them at maximum quality would easily make the file size over 130KB--something that we discourage. Setting them as thumbnails on the main pagefurther compress the images, making them seem blurrier than they actually are. That's something I cannot help.

And personally, I don't think what I have up there is worse than the pixelated MS Paint edits that I've removed. --Powder Rune 05:35, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

in your policy on image quality, i recommend that you also discourage wearing guild robes(for a similar reason to why names should,nt be in the pic), or anything that looks like a pic that's just showing off someones clothing. maybe even say that a plain robe is preferred.--Sozen Cratos Focker 00:20, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Valid point you have there! I can discourage the use of guild robes, but if the person hides their username (and their guild at the same time), it's not too big of a deal. With 4 servers and many guild robes that have similar color schemes, it's hard to tell. But I will still tack it on; The policy's still being drafted at this point.

However, I think it's a bit unnecessary to tell people that they can't wear fancy clothing. I think it's perfectly fine to wear what you want, and it's hard to tell if someone's trying to show off their wardrobe or if they're just wearing what they normally wear. And again, if the username is hidden, it's not too big of a deal. Things that will be mainly addressed in the image policy are the three points I made above, image sizes, and a possible cap on personal pictures for people's userpages. --Powder Rune 03:52, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

the reason i mentioned the part about fancy clothing is cause the stuff in the pictures for dragon blade is a bit... distracting.--Sozen Cratos Focker 22:32, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I understand. I can add that in those types of pictures, the images should emphasize the content (in this case, the Dragon Blade), and not the player, which is perfectly valid. I should move this to my discussion page afterward, since we've strayed a bit off topic =p --Powder Rune 00:27, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Training Requirements

For a while now, the description of the requirements in the Wiki haven't been matching up with what's written in the game. Now for me this is no big issue but I'm thinking that it might be in the interests of the wiki to change so as to match what's written in-game with a small note as to how the training requirements match up to the in-game CP based rankings (eg, "powerful" = "strong" and such). Not a big issue but just something I thought should be thrown out there.--Mystickskye 00:50, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Even though everything you said makes perfect sense, when you hold ALT in-game to view the enemy's level, it will not say "powerful" or "very powerful," but rather "strong" and "awful." The wiki is worded to match the description of the monster in-game, thus making it less confusing to what you actually need to kill for training requirements. --Powder Rune 02:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Skill Rank updates...

I know this is a bit early to account fot this, but at some point in G9/G10 several skills are being updated. They will extend the cap from Rank 1 to 1st, 2nd and 3rd Dan... it's like in Tae-Kwon-Do... after the black belt you get upper ranks as "Dan"s

Check out this link: http://hwild.inour.net/#18

Click on the "A.P" tab on the top and it will tell you about the skill ranks.

--Sweetspot 20:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Advancement

Im pretty confused in advancing, When it says AP required: #, does it mean the # is to get the that rank or the next? -- Occy

It's the AP required to get that rank. --Aramet (Talk) 20:53, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Ah, ok thanks :D -- Occy

Tabbed Training Methods?

(I placed this in the discussion instead of threading because the template doesn't work in threads.) Should we do tabbed training requirements (one of the reasons I put up to 15 tabs, though more can be placed). Here's a little sample using Smash :

• Novice Rank
• Rank F
• Rank E
• Rank D
• Rank C
• Rank B
• Rank A
• Rank 9
• Rank 8
• Rank 7
• Rank 6
• Rank 5
• Rank 4
• Rank 3
• Rank 2

• AP: -

• Effects: Damage 150%

Method	Exp.	Count	Total
Learn better skills from other people or books.	100.00	1	100.00

	AP	Stat	Effect
Human	1	No stat increase	Damage 200%
Elf	0	No stat increase	Damage 200%
Giant	1	No stat increase	Damage 200%
Method Exp. Count Total Human Use the skill successfully. 1.00 100 100.00​ Critical Hit with Smash. 5.00 10 50.00​ Finishing blow with Smash. 10.00 5 50.00 Elf Use the skill successfully. 1.00 100 100.00​ Critical Hit with Smash. 5.00 10 50.00​ Finishing blow with Smash. 8.00 5 40.00 Giant Use the skill successfully. 5.00 40 200.00​ Critical Hit with Smash. 30.00 5 150.00​ Finishing blow with Smash. 50.00 1 50.00

	AP	Stat	Effect
Human	4	No stat increase	Damage 210%
Elf	2	No stat increase	Damage 210%
Giant	4	No stat increase	Damage 210%
Method Exp. Count Total Human Use the skill successfully. 1.00 100 100.00​ Critical Hit with Smash. 5.00 15 75.00​ Finishing blow with Smash. 10.00 5 50.00 Elf Use the skill successfully. 1.00 100 100.00​ Critical Hit with Smash. 5.00 15 75.00​ Finishing blow with Smash. 8.00 5 40.00 Giant Use the skill successfully. 4.00 60 240.00​ Critical Hit with Smash. 20.00 8 160.00​ Finishing blow with Smash. 30.00 2 60.00

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Notes

• Using headers are not recommended because they will be placed within the TOC, but clicking an inactive tab's header will not do anything. (There will still be the "Training Method" header above the tabs.

--κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 20:07, 6 December 2010 (PST)

Umm, seems good. I'd actually use a loop instead of hardcoding everything in the template but we need to get IJ to install that extension... Oh, and make the tabs look more "Vector" like (The skin). That means no rounded corners :O And once ladywinter comes back, I think she might object to the corners too

I HATE THIS THREADING CRAP

​

~◕Д◕ ^TALK_CONTRIBS2010:12:07:04:53 (Tuesday) 20:53, 6 December 2010 (PST)

But the corners are so sexy. ): Ohwell. And to change things to look 'vectorish', you'd need to change all the colors too. ): --κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 21:11, 6 December 2010 (PST)

This doesn't work for me at all, much like the new skill rank mouse overs. Or are we making this into a firefox only wiki? Tellos 21:19, 6 December 2010 (PST)

They work fine on chrome... I think. Since Ikkisuki uses that. I might add a "Stop using IE, get Firefox or Chrome" banner to the top that ban be disabled for a day if you are using IE...

I HATE THIS THREADING CRAP

​

~◕Д◕ ^TALK_CONTRIBS2010:12:07:17:54 (Tuesday)

Why didn't you just use the styles on the skin itself?

I HATE THIS THREADING CRAP

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~◕Д◕ ^TALK_CONTRIBS2010:12:07:17:54 (Tuesday)

Somehow I always figured that compatibility between all browsers took priority over flashy effects. Tellos 10:36, 7 December 2010 (PST)

Yea, but IE is always the one that is left out because of it being non-standard. IE9 is the only one that seems to be standard compatible. Have you ever been on Google's pages using IE? Quite a lot of features are disabled simply because IE was used

I HATE THIS THREADING CRAP

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~◕Д◕ ^TALK_CONTRIBS2010:12:07:21:46 (Tuesday)

Oh snaps. this doesn't work on IE? Lolol. I use a combination of Firefox and Chrome, btw. --κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 15:42, 7 December 2010 (PST)

I'll work on the styles when I get home. I'm guessing by context that you want them to look like the "Page" and "Discussion" tabs at the top? --κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 15:47, 7 December 2010 (PST)

Yea. Use the styles in main.css if you can, but if you can't, use Common.css

I HATE THIS THREADING CRAP

​

~◕Д◕ ^TALK_CONTRIBS2010:12:08:00:00 (Wednesday)

I'm aware IE8 is outdated, but IE9 is still in beta. I don't like firefox because its always been a trainwreck from a programer's standpoint. If it works on IE9 thought I guess its fine. Tellos 18:09, 7 December 2010 (PST)

Chrome. --κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 18:25, 7 December 2010 (PST)

Tabs should work on IE now. Working on my IE8 on Windows 7. --κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 18:46, 7 December 2010 (PST)

After messing around with the css, I finally got the tabs to look exactly like vector's. The problem is that... including a tab template inside a tab template will make the borders look a bit weird... I don't recommend it. --κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 20:04, 7 December 2010 (PST)

Might have a problem with being too wide with too many tabs. There are a lot of ranks, after all. --- Angevon (Talk) 16:58, 10 December 2010 (PST)

The template tends to break to a second line when it is overfilled (refers to updated table). --κєνıи _{(»тαıĸ«)} 18:23, 10 December 2010 (PST)

All changes to skills are currently on the patches page, but I think they should also mentioned on the skills themselves. We've done it for Generations, and that should apply to skills as well. This is mostly for returning players who've not realized a change to a skill and can't find it in Patches; also an idea for mentioning load/cooldowns for monsters/pets/NPCs. For example, with Windmill:

---

Skill Changes

• Generation 15, Season 4:
  • Windmill no longer consumes 10% Health on use.
  • Windmill no longer has invincibility frames during its attack animation.
• Generation 16, Season 2: The New Advent of the Goddess:
  • Loading and cooldown times were changed for players and Role-playing Characters.
    • Monsters, Pets, Partners, and NPCs are not affected and still use these old times:

Rank		F	E	D	C	B	A	9	8	7	6	5	4	3	2	1
Load Time [sec]	1.1							0.8
Cooldown Time [sec]	0

Skill Issues

---

I suggest it go between details and skill issues/summary, but anyway, thoughts for improvement and/or implementation?

I think it should go in trivia.

I don't see how it can fall under trivia...

It's definitely not trivia, and I can see its use for returning players. However, I'm concerned about how long the section would get for some of the skills that have been changed many times over time. Blaze comes to mind with all the nerfs over time, and then buffs. Rather than having sub-bullets, maybe we can have one liners per change that do a general summary of what changed. In your example, it would then be changed to:

• Generation 15, Season 4: Windmill no longer consumes 10% Health on use or has invincibility frames during its attack animation.
• Generation 16, Season 2: The New Advent of the Goddess: Loading and cooldown times were changed for players and Role-playing Characters. Monsters, Pets, Partners, and NPCs were not affected.

Alternatively, a spoiler thingy could be used, but I'm not a huge fan of those.

I don't think it'd be that long compared to details, summary, training methods, etc. However, I do think pre-Genesis loading/cooldown times needs to be mentioned somewhere on the skill page due to the fact that AI controlled things still have them (and no one could settle on an idea).

Since they didn't change, how are we going to put it in the skill tables?

We could make a pet skills page will a bunch of categorized skill tables?

Pet Skills are exactly the same as Human Skills, except for the Loading/Cooldown.

I know, that's why I said only skill tables.

What's a nice page title for it though...?

We could just add the row back and rename it...

"Character Cooldown/Load Time"

&

"Normal Cooldown/Load Time"

? or something similar.

Too much work because we have to put "Monster/Pet/Partner".

Why not a page with skill tables but only the Load/Cooldown variables, like Skill Lists w/ just AP?

Bump, this is still very important.

Bump

Bump again...

I second Kevin's suggestion.

Mm, why "Normal" though? Its only Monsters, Non-RP NPCs, and Pets who have it.

"Monsters, Non-RP NPCs, and Pets Cooldown/Load Time" it is.

Calling it "normal" makes more sense. it's the way the skills normally work. The removal of cooldowns is a recent change that only applies to players, and even if the game revolves around us, we're not the only ones using those skills.

Wrong. The game revolves around this guy. Anything he says is correct and everything must be changed to reflect such righteousness. Likewise, anything you say that he does not like is automatically incorrect. You must change your ways before you are banished from Mabinogi for disobeying the almighty Know-It-All of Mabinogi.

I know he's usually asking for it but don't you think you might be being a bit too hard on him sometimes?

In my opinion, "Normal" sounds weird...

Okay, the only things it applies to are monsters, pets, partners, NPCs, and players before "classic", while it's been removed for everything from players to ...players?

If by "sounds weird" you mean the word itself and not it's meaning, I guess something like "standard" or "default" might work too, but for accurately defining what it is without taking up too much space, there's nothing wrong with "normal".

What do you mean by "players before classic"?

players before the update labeled "classic" (wasn't that when this happened?)

I don't get it. You can't not have the dynamic combat system. What does creation date (before/after classic/whenever the dynamic combat patch was) have to do with it?

I wasn't talking about creation date, I was just pointing out that the game ran on the classic combat system much longer than the "Classic" combat system.

I agree, but I think the terms "Player" and "AI" would be better?

Don't pets still have it even when the player is logged in as them?

/tests.

yes they do.

Then "Player" and "AI" wouldn't work.

Now that we're on semantics, maybe instead of "character" and "normal", how about "Miletian" and "normal"?(since Npcs/monsters/pets are technically characters.)

Doesn't work. Pets are milletians.

I don't think they're considered Miletians in the story.

Pets can rebirth; they're considered milletians.

And in the actual story, pets don't even exist.

I don't mean the mainstream questline stories, I mean the game's overall story, including their card descriptions in the cashshop.

RP Characters are affected.

Ah.. well then nvm the militean suggestion.

I just realized "character" still works, cause in Mabi, the term "character" is also used to mean the specific category of character this applies to(characters made using character cards(as opposed to pet cards/partner cards)).

If anyone cares, the game uses "Character".

How about Character and Other Entities?

How about an asterisk in the row header and a brief explanation of when it applies at the bottom?

This sounds reasonable.

And then each skill page where load times vary will end up having an essay under the summary table. Watch. It'll happen.

Bump.

Does anyone other than dude575 object to Kevin's suggestion? Or does anyone have a better idea?

Which suggestion?

We could just add the row back and rename it...

"Character Cooldown/Load Time"

&

"Normal Cooldown/Load Time"

...

That one

That'd still confuse people though, unless as Kevin said, we add a paragraph under each table which is also bad.

Now that that's all laid out, shouldn't we put that EXP on every single individual page?

That seems more pointless than linking "Talent" on every single skill page.

What do you mean?

Bump

Talent exp is usually the longest thing in the column by far. Would anyone be against abbreviating it? (example: 10k instead of 10000)

Rank 1 Lance Charge gives 1,155,300 or 1,155.3k. That's kind of weird to read, but that's just my opinion.

Ever since the Iria patch that introduced the elves and giants, the skill pages have been bloated with extra information about races not relevant to most readers. Thus, I've come up with this solution that would bring the information back to the compression of pre-Iria. This would apply to the summary as well as the skill requirements. As an example:

• Human
• Elf
• Giant

Rank	F	E	D	C	B	A	9	8	7	6	5	4	3	2	1
Defense Bonus	20	21	22	24	26	28	32	34	38	42	46	50			55
Protection Bonus	5	6	7	8	9	10	12	13	14	15	17	20			25
Required AP	0	1	3	5	7	8	11	12	13	14	17	18	19	20	25
Required AP (Total)	0	1	4	9	16	24	35	47	60	74	91	109	128	148	173
Additional HP (Total)	+2	+4	+6	+8	+10	+12	+14	+16	+18	+20	+22	+25	+28	+31	+41
Additional Base Defense	+1
Additional Base Defense (Total)	+1	+2	+3	+4	+5	+6	+7	+8	+9	+10	+11	+12	+13	+14	+15
Stamina Use	1		2				3				4				5
Party Defense Bonus	-										5				10
Party Defense Bonus Range	-										?				~100
Load Time [sec]	0
Cooldown Time [sec]	7
Skill CP (Total)	30	60	90	120	150	180	210	230	260	290	320	350	380	390	400
Stat CP (Total)	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	25	28	31	41

Rank	F	E	D	C	B	A	9	8	7	6	5	4	3	2	1
Defense Bonus	20	21	22	24	26	28	32	34	38	42	46	50			55
Protection Bonus	5	6	7	8	9	10	12	13	14	15	17	20			25
Required AP	0	2	3	4	5	7	9				11				20
Required AP (Total)	0	2	5	9	14	21	30	39	48	57	68	79	90	101	121
Additional HP (Total)	+2	+4	+6	+8	+10	+12	+14	+16	+18	+20	+22	+25	+28	+31	+41
Additional Base Defense	+1	-		+1	-		+1	-	+1	-	+1				+2
Additional Base Defense (Total)	+1			+2			+3		+4		+5	+6	+7	+8	+10
Stamina Use	1		2				3				4				5
Party Defense Bonus	-										5				10
Party Defense Bonus Range	-										?				~100
Load Time [sec]	0
Cooldown Time [sec]	7
Skill CP (Total)	30	60	90	120	150	180	210	230	260	290	320	350	380	390	400
Stat CP (Total)	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	25	28	31	41

Rank	F	E	D	C	B	A	9	8	7	6	5	4	3	2	1
Defense Bonus	30	31	32	33	35	37	39	41	43	45	48	51	54	57	60
Protection Bonus	10	11	12	13	15	+17	+19	21	23	25	28	31	34	37	40
Required AP	0	1	3	5	7	8	11	12	13	14	17	18	19	20	25
Required AP (Total)	0	1	4	9	16	24	35	47	60	74	91	109	128	148	173
Additional HP (Total)	+2	+4	+6	+8	+10	+12	+14	+16	+18	+20	+22	+25	+28	+31	+41
Additional Base Defense	+1
Additional Base Defense (Total)	+1	+2	+3	+4	+5	+6	+7	+8	+9	+10	+11	+12	+13	+14	+15
Stamina Use	1		2				3				4				5
Party Defense Bonus	-										5				10
Party Defense Bonus Range	-										?				~100
Load Time [sec]	0
Cooldown Time [sec]	7
Skill CP (Total)	30	60	90	120	150	180	210	230	260	290	320	350	380	390	400
Stat CP (Total)	2	4	6	8	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	25	28	31	41

Thoughts?

In terms of skill tables, I prefer the current system, personally. I do agree with separating some racial things with tabs, but not skill tables. This would just make it harder to compare racial differences in skills.

The main part I'd like tabbed would be the (much larger) skill requirements. Finding the right information right now is just a pain.

I agree with skill requirements, but certain pages like Smash already do that.

I'm not sure if you're seeing the same Smash page as me. The skill requirements for each rank on the page I see are a mess that require lots of searching and clicking just to get the information you want.

I've seen a "Related Enchants" section on the defense skill page and some other pages, and I think it may be a good idea to include such a section in every skill page. I personally don't have too much time, but if anyone is interested in undertaking the project, it would be greatly appreciated.

We intend to include it in every page. It's a pretty moderately sized project, though.

Should we get images of every skill and their animations for every single weapon/race? I mean, we've done it for Rest and no one declined SwissedToast for Fighter GIFs.

What's wrong with still images o-o?

Nothing. It just lack of content; there's no image of Smash or Defense or a lot of skills I'm too lazy to point out, and Counterattack has more than one animation.

I would, but everyone would go all crazy on me.

Define crazy...

Hence why no one is rejecting the idea. :D

Maybe put the gallery on a subpage, like how we do the special colored weapons, so that it doesn't lag people up loading the page when they just want skill training info.

No one did that for Rest...

Cause loading pngs isn't as breathtaking as loading gifs.