Talk:Wiki Home

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When to Archive this page for new slew of discussions..?

"World of Errin," "Equipment," and "Skills" is cluttered. More so "Skills" than anything else on the front page. Think we can have it take up a full width or something? Or any font page renewals if any :s...Every wiki (at some point) revamps the front page in some way/shape/form...sooo why not now, if not sometime in the next quarter? Not to mention how defunct DFO is now... I wouldn't mind seeing the images below being used again in the near future (other than now of course D:).

I've never been a fan of there being a giant sitemap on the front page. I don't think Kadalyn likes it easier. I honestly believe search is much easier to use than that navigation.

Well I actually use it since well...everything's right there.

Ditto with Lexis. I think Lexis should span multiple columns, but I don't think Equipment should. Rather, I don't see a point in the subbullets, and I think the weapons under "Ranged" should be made their own bullets instead of subbullets. World of Erinn I'm not sure on, but I think the front page icon should be changed asap to be honest, before the rest of this is resolved.

We're planning to revamp and minimize the front page relatively soon. Feel free to dump your thoughts here.

Also yeah, we should switch that logo...hm~ maybe the middle one.

Thank you.

If you guys are planning to revamp the front page, then I recommend Starting with the General Information, its almost entirely full of "Miscellaneous" Sections. You should really use it for actual general information, like the categories lingering in the bottom half of the front page. Enchants, Production, Species, Pets and partners are all general information that should just redirect to their own category page.

The actual Miscellaneous section should become its own, things like Current bugs, OST information, and other Non in-game content.

Basically everything you just mentioned is linked on the left menu navigation. Is there a reason to have those category links multiple times?

Yes, because the main page also tends to serve as a directory too and there is no reason not to leave important category links on the front page (Why cant we have useful links on both?). However we don't need the information on the category page cluttering up the front page. Why do you think the front page equipment section is awkward looking? The Misc. Items sub bullet isn't related to equipment at all. I also don't see why we need to list enchants F to rank A on the main page when the category page serves that exact purpose. Things like that.

Your words seem to be agreeing with my stance, but your wording seems to imply disagreement.

Why not put all those lists in collapsible boxes so they are easy to get to but don't clutter things up when you don't need them? Just make the main category headings the titles of the boxes. Each box is closed by default, and opens when you click on it.

I tried that...it looks very awkward...

Better than removing the lists,

No it is not because:

1. It looks a bit cluttered and awkward for new people.
2. It's not a good replacement for minimization
3. Some people like to see everything available for ctrl+F on the front page.
4. It's just a bad way to hide things and is inconvenient for people :/

I don't see how it's more inconvenient than removing things from the page.

Just because you use it doesn't mean it should be on the front page. I challenge you to find any site that has that much navigation linking on the front page. Unless you are a slow typer, search will almost always be faster and if you use Chrome (possibly others), you don't even have to visit the wiki to search. You just type in the wiki URL until it comes up on autocomplete, hit tab, then type your search term. The actual search box on the website does autocompletion on pages and so does the Chrome search, if you do what I described above. If you visit the site by bookmark, then you can always bookmark a new "Site Map" page or something like that. There is also a fair bit of redundancy between that blob and the left menu navigation.

That being said, even though I rather dislike the navigation, there is no mandate to remove it unless something better appears.

My main concern is skills and how bunched up it is. Everything else is okay as is. I just wish it was a bit more organized :s

I like the info on the front page of wiki...Mabi is a big game, at least for me as a newbie I didn't even know what to search for when I saw something cool...It's nice to have the list of map/generation/skills/production, I'm sure it's helpful for newbies to look up the info they want easier, without having to clicking through random pages to get to whatever list they're looking for.

Serendove, I don't really find that to be a compelling argument. Even if you don't know what to search for, you likely do know what category your super cool thing falls under. You aren't going to look under the map section for a super cool looking skill. It's rarely going to be a truly random click sequence. By far the most used links on the front page are the missions, patch page, and events. Having so many deep links is information overload and I kind of doubt that many people are willing to filter through all of that.

Also, people who want to see change are free to mock their changes up like with any other big change.

I didn't say you look up skills under the map section, you look up skills under the skill section? which is included in my list of helpful tabs. Also nowhere on the wiki you get a complete list of all areas inside the game. Which I find is useful for newbies who want to look for new areas to explore. If you remove all those information, or at least make them harder to find, in my opinion it hinders the ability for new players to explore the game efficiently.

The game itself doesn't have a efficient guide to new players, which is why, at least to my understanding, this wiki exits. I'm not saying the front page is perfect, it could use reformatting, but I don't think it's a big improvement to remove the information there.

I do agree the skills section is a bit excessive though, I wouldn't mind just keeping the categories.

Categories would be fine for me. It would be better than seeing fighter skills then underneath it is puppetry...and so on. just a jumbled mess :x

My example was simply pointing out that one does not/should not have to "randomly click" through pages to find information. You should basically always know the category of what you're looking for, so category links should be enough. If the wiki doesn't have a list of all areas in the game, that's a shortcoming of the wiki and needs to be fixed, but I don't consider that a strong argument for verbose front page navigation.

The wiki isn't really a guide to the game either, it's more of an encyclopedia/reference. In my opinion, there are clear examples that run counter to being newbie-friendly because of verbosity. Enchants were mentioned elsewhere in this thread. If a player is new to the game, how is having all rank enchants on the navigation useful? To further my point, the top enchantment rank link from the home page in the past ~2 months is Rank A. That link was clicked 177 times. Of all of the link referrals outbound from the home page, that one was clicked 0.03% of the time. Multiply that by 14 to cover all ranks (an optimistic estimate) and it's still a whopping 0.5% of all link clicks. Statistically speaking, it's not useful. I can look at more stats later if you want, but trust me when I say the lion's share of links leaving from the home page are due to recency, not the comprehensive index on the front page. The main reason the navigation section is used is for skills that are recently released, as far as I can tell.

So I guess one idea is to start collapsing the navigation to categories where we see fit, and add a new category for "recent/relevant (to the latest release(s)) articles". I don't know what the right granularity of that would be, though.

Personally I prefer information accessable from the start. I wouldn't want to search into subsection areas (e.g. categories) to find what I need, because that would take some time to load and I don't like my time wasted (even if its just a flimsy second).

Yes, I do use the search function, but that doesn't mean everyone else will.

I didn't mention enchants but enchanting is not a very popular path for most people, so I understand why it has low click rate. But instead of comparing the amount of clicks to the total amount of clicks on the homepage, it should be compared to the total amount of clicks on the Rank A page during those 2 months, to give an idea of how many people in total actually visited that page in the first place.

That is beside my point though. I won't argue back and forth on this thread because you asked for my opinion and that was my opinion.

I will give one last example: I played in the Taiwan server when Iria came out, there was a wiki for it as well, but didn't have the info readily available on the first page. I went through a 2 months oblivious to the existence of the generation quests. I got bored very quickly and quit the game. I started after in the NA server and got into the Generation story lines and that's what kept me in the game. Looking back it would've helped me a lot if I had that info presented clearly in an index. I still see a lot of newbies leave the game because it get's too complicated and there's too much stuff to learn, they don't know whether a quest is just a quest or it's part of something else. Having the info readily available puts things into perspective, because how can you search for something when you don't even realize that it exists?

Whether if it's an intended function or not, this wiki is used by a lot of newbies as a guide, and I don't think that is a bad thing. Because after all this is a wiki for a game, and I hardly think the importance of it being encyclopedia worthy surpasses user friendliness... This wiki is more guide than encyclopedia from the way I see it anyways. For example, all skill pages have training tip sections. When you look up Carpentry in Encyclopedia Britannica does it give you tips on what type of axe to use and how to hold it?...You find that info in a Carpentry guide... All skills give comprehensive training data for each rank. When you look up Schools in Encyclopedia Britannica, does it give you all the classes it offers and all the credits you need to graduate etc?...You find that in a guide for students also... That's just two examples =/

I don't mind arguing back and forth on opinion if it helps me understand other standpoints. I'm making an effort to try and convince people of my views because I don't want to put much effort into ideas that are unpopular. Though, I dislike having extended conversations on wiki threads.

Even though enchanting is not a popular skill line, using enchantments is not, so I don't really think that's the total explanation behind the low clicks (also, 15712 visits to the Rank A page in the same period which means 1.1% clicked from the front page). The argument I'm trying to make here is the same argument I will make in response to your last example. You make a strong case (in this particular case) for making users aware of the presence of generational content on the wiki. That makes total sense, and I'm not disagreeing with that. My question is, why does that mean that every single generation needs a link on the front page? If a user isn't aware of generation quests, it seems highly unlikely to me that the user will be looking to click into the G17 article. Instead, they will think, "what's generation quests?" and click on a link that talks about them as a whole (and also links to the individual generations). So what I'm saying is, the additional level of detail is not helping new users. The same argument can be applied for enchants. I am not arguing that the entire navigation should be discarded, I'm simply saying that I believe it is way too fine-grained.

Somewhat related:

We've been open for like...5 years now? can we change that image in the top left, if not at the least have it say "Mabinogi World Wiki" or something similar? I still have a couple we could use...let me dig them up.

Uhh disregard "North America" as people from EU use this wiki also more than their own EU wiki..not to mention that EU players play here sooo ya. Anyways one of them has more intense shading while the other doesn't. I can change the font or wording if necessary as well o-o

I don't remember if I ever gave feedback publicly, but I don't like the font or the shadow behind it. The style just seems rather old as far as web design goes. I don't like the colored eye much either since it's too much of an attention getter.

I have one with the Celtic Cross somewhere...I'ma dig it up and see if I ever did anything to it.

I love the one with the colored eye, Lexis! I vote for the one with the colored eye and Mabinogi World Wiki.

As long as its not related to the Cessair's Red Eye Magic >.>

Personally, I don't like the current coloration of any of them. I'd rather they be uncolored or completely colored (which includes not a brown outline). The font is okay I guess.

I could make it a black outline, but the colors would stand out more (at least I think it would)...

Anyways I have a couple undone ones with the celtic cross that I never really expanded on. You can see in the link with this post.

I want you guys to look at every other game wiki in existence.

This is the kind of minimization saiyr and I are talking about. Major categories are kept. A few categories (like Guides) will probably be added. But the minor direct links will be removed.

Some of you talk about there being an overload of information in mabi. Things like the main page present that fact. It is more likely to scare newbies than to help them. If I were a newbie staring at that information, I would have no idea where to start.

Infodude, if you want to save time so badly, realize that you're not a newbie player and probably have the majority of page names memorized so that you can go there directly. Newbies don't need to "save a few seconds" and certainly wouldn't be saving a few seconds because they would be spending minutes scrolling through that crap in the first place.

When I asked for opinions I didn't mean "beg me to keep it the way it is" or "argue the viability of statistically irrelevant links" I meant make suggestions on how to consolidate and what sort of major pages you would like to see in that section.

I can't help but agree with this. When I first started to use the wiki I was quite lost with it.

Major pages I feel should be on the front page 100%: Generation disambiguation (or full list, whatever floats your boat) Talent list, skills list/disambiguation page

Although I do think the newmenu is a bit excessive, I feel like those wikis are under-doing it. Can we shift this conversation to being about what we think deserves to be on the front page?
I'm going to section by section on what my personal thoughts are:

• General Information
  • I want to hear others opinions on this first.
• World of Erinn
  • I think we should keep the town and dungeon names, but remove the subbullets. (Such as Rath Royal Castle, Connous Underground Maze, Filia, Shyllien Nature Reserve, etc.)
  • I think we should ADD Shadow Missions and Theatre Missions to the list under dungeons.
• Equipment
  • First Column
    • Remove Magical Accessory bullet.
    • Remove Designer Sets bullet.
  • Second Column
    • Remove every bullet under upgrades besides artisan and special upgrades, and add gem upgrades inbetween the two.
  • Third Column
    • Remove subbullets for Dream Catchers, Umbrellas, Arrows, Ballistas, Bolts, Javelins, Bullets, Puppets, and Rapiers.
    • Remove the primary bullet Ranged, and make all its subbullets regular bullets.
    • Remove bullets for Pillows and Ragdolls, they're just Blunts. . .
    • Move Marionettes and Missiles to the first column, like Shields is.
    • Add Instruments and Tools to this column.
  • Fourth Column
    • Remove Instruments and Tools from this column.
• Enchants
  • Merge with the second column of equipment, since it'll be so short now.
• Species
  • First of all, move it to one of this sections, not the last. Choosing a player race is one of the most important thing for newcomers.
  • The Monster subcategories seems unneeded to me.
  • Bosses is fine.
  • We might also be able to merge this with a different section.
• Mainstream Quests*
  • Remove the Chapter Bullets and make all of its subbullets regular bullets.
• Skills
  • Needs two columns, which should be easy since we eliminated the enchant column and can merge species with General Information.
• Production
  • Leave as is.
• Pets and Partners
  • Rename Pets, Minipets, and Partners.
  • Remove bullets such as "Animal Humanoid", "Anthropods", etc.
  • Leave collection, flying mounts, mounts, and list of pets.
  • Remove Parnters and Minipets since they're already in the name.

Please don't discuss it in terms of what's currently there. We will flat out be removing the majority of it, no argument.

You can discuss consolidation, for instance: "Add a category that lists all places in Erinn and link to that." Or specifically say what's on there that you want to keep. Keep in mind that nearly every "sub bullet" is going to be removed. If you want one of them kept, post what it is and a strong argument as to why.

The design will likely change significantly, so there's no need to discuss that. I frankly don't want anyone's opinion on that until after it happens, because it's impossible to incorporate public opinion into design. Also I seriously don't want arguments against this fact cause I know some of you will want to. If you're a seasoned web developer you're welcome to talk with us about design (preferably elsewhere), but I'm pretty sure no one in this thread so far is.

Since people associate pictures to skills rather than text...

I'm still messing aroudn with it.

I approve of this idea, why didn't I think of that. . . Though, the admins are probably going to remove the list of individual skills altogether.

I'm trying to weed out what's important and what's not, talking to several hundred players in-game and that latter..no, it's not fun socializing to strangers...

I've asked some players (guild members and friends) for their opinions on your new template.

• This is what one of my guild members said:

“	Having the skills as icons might make things confusing for newbies. I remember using the wiki to learn about skills when I first started, and since so much relies on people /mentioning/ names, you won't always know something just from how it looks. Especially as a newbie, you won't, for example, recognize Chain Cylinder just by its icon.	„

• Many players, including myself, use the two sections removed for easier access to Lists, whether it is to the Enchant Ranks or Item Lists.
  • Many of the players I spoke to are Life skilled players, and they liked how all the production lists were easy for access since they did not need to locate the skill to find the list hidden somewhere inside the Details/Info sections.

“	Having the Enchant Ranks displayed helps players with looking for bridging enchants quicker.	„

• The armor/clothing upgrade list was more useful than all the weapon upgrades as each individual weapon has the upgrades already written below, but the armor/clothing upgrades are all the same.

Still working out kinks and various things. Trying to either move it elsewhere or leave some note of it.

Something's been bothering me lately... There's only the transform skill for transformations, but why not the other skills associated with? I mean, Demigod has both the transform skill and all its other skills in the tab.

Hell should I know. I'm fixing what's there but I guess it can be added. I'll admit it does look strange :s

lol It looks strange with just the active skill...if you want everything to be there, then why bother defeating the purpose of minimization qq.

I'm not so convinced pictures are better than text. Can't search images, and it doesn't seem to me that new users will know pictures over text. I would like to hear your insight in talking to people, though.

So far everyone that uses the wiki searches almost everything directly to the source via search bar. This includes but not limited to:

• Weapons
  • Upgrades for said weapon
• Enchants
• Methods of production
• Variety of equipment

So far, people find the front page rather useless except for daily info, on-going events, and server status. I'm guessing after that, everything just directs to the search bar for a more direct approach, rather than finding stuff on the front page. The item list is rather cluttered and shouldn't really be too elaborate. Like puppets and rapiers under sword and umbrellas under blunts. The skills box is said to be cluttered by about 160 of the some 400 users I asked. Some preferred skill icons while other prefer it be a large box rather than a cluttered mess.

Lexis, Kiyoura, in both of your cases, where these people taking into account hovering over the icon could show the name of the skills? I'd think that'd help newbies learn their names. I find that when I meet a new person, I don't remember their name, I remember their face. But if their name is said often enough while looking at their face, I begin to associate the name with the face. And when I learn a name and don't know a face, it's almost instant association, no need to spend time memorizing the face. (Keeping in mind that I am male.)

From what I asked, yes. In fact, hovering over the skill icon shows up the name in a generic windows box. Even the link in the bottom left corner says where the image leads to. If you mean actual mouse overs like the skill icons on Skill templates, that could be done.

From a long-time player's perspective, using the icons would be easier, but for beginners it would be harder.

From a beginners perspective, NPCs tell you the skills by their names, not by their icons. Hovering over each icon to find the name of the skill is rather more work for navigation. You shouldn't have to hover over icons to find the correct item in a list. If hovering over icons was adding function, then that would be one thing, but it's not adding function in this case; it's purely for aesthetics.

Also, having a player look at the bottom right/left of their browser, to check if the link is correct, is more work than it needs to be.

Which is why I suggested the skill icon template, because hovering over the icon says the name, rather than having to look at the destination link if your browser even has that feature. Perhaps we can make text-name toggleable somehow? There's no denying both sides of the argument are pretty useful.

Large icons are cluttery, and defeats the purpose of minimization.

Having these gigantic lists at all defeats the purpose of minimization.

Then what's the point of the front page at all? You expect people to click through 2 3 or 4 pages to find what they want?

The front page is for introduction, appeal, and news; it's not supposed to be a sitemap. Think of it like a book: you have your front cover, then you have your table of contents -- not both in one.

Then where would you have the table of contents? If we're not even going to have one.

It's exactly as Kevin says. Like before, I linked all of those other wikis to give you an idea of what front pages should look like.

And again, you will not be clicking through 2-4 pages to get to where you want, because you know what to search for. Newbies will, however, need to click through a couple pages; but they'll quickly learn what to search for as well.

I expect to add more categories and nicer summary pages and other things with this to make it an easy switch. Hopefully such a change will give users more incentive to keep pages like the Enchanting Sequences page up to date, which would fix Kyoura's guildmates' dilemma.

If I may stumble in to this conversation before stumbling out, the front page could be cleaned up by adding to the Categories listed under "Categories" on the sidebar, and there could be a link on the front page that leads to a "Table of Contents" page which would allow people to select categories and go from there.

Peace.

/stumbles out

And it's not that hard to make a "Sitemap" page and link to it under the "Navigation" pane on the lefthand sidebar.

Actually, is there nay way we can make hovering over a category on the sidemap bring up more specific subsections like in some other wikis? Either way, I don't think the Newmenu should be lost. Be it in the sidebar, a Sitemap page, or still on the front page.

We have something like that in the works I guess. Even then, I wouldn't want the thing to be super cluttered. Most wikis do not have a dropdown of all the skills in the game.

SkillIcon template is resizable (not that I care for the front page at all).

Okay that I did not know....time to do more messing around

I saw on the front page in the introduction at the top it mentions, If you would like to help out, please see Wiki Tips for New Editors. Use the discussion tab on this page to propose new projects or changes or to ask for formatting help.

But then I finally noticed along the top of the discussion page it says, This discussion page is now only for discussing the front page and its contents.

I'd be willing to make the update myself, but it needs special permission. Could someone able possibly update the front page to avoid confusion?

Ah, thanks!

I noticed the Dowra SE repair costs ingame were half of what's listed in the wiki. Is there a way to correct it? I tried taking a look, but it looks like it's done through templates and I don't want to mess with the coding going on there. Was using an old pair of Dowras and overlooked the Engineer enchant's -50% to repairs. Nothing to see here, just another person learning to read :)

Topic. Discuss.

Do you mean like a category for things like the wiki guide for dummies?

Sorta. see here or look down a bit.

Do we have any categories for user pages?

Not that I noticed nor recall.

The premise is that there should be a place with a complied list of guides made by users, whether it be introductory guides to something such as a few on my user page, or things like how to do a specific thing like finales, such as the one on Swissed's page. I probably should have elaborated a bit but ehh...laptop was dying =-=;

While the category itself may be helpful, are there enough pre-existing pages to warrant it though? Then there's the issue of consistency and quality of the user guides (as a whole) that are part of that category; you don't want to include a craptastic guide with one that's actually well-written.

That is true. I'm sure some ground rules would be placed and someone is going to have to review them, which I don't mind doing.

I think it would be difficult to set and maintain the standards of quality that would guide such reviews, especially in the cases where the potential reviewers aren't exactly familiar with the subject being written about.

What kind of things would you expect of a quality article? Would it be okay to just focus on presentation over content when unfamiliar with it? Would it be fair to judge it both ways?

Part of me doesn't want to slow down the process with red tape. I'd really like people to write more guides and I think feeling like they're able to do so freely would facilitate that.

Well, mainly I'm looking at grammar and stuff. Nothing too big o-o. as long as proper English is there, there isn't really much to look over other than the presentation quality.

I guess if it's that alone that would probably be okay to do. I just hope it doesn't get backed up.

The issue of "I'm right, you're wrong" would then come up, along with formal vs informal, 1st vs 2nd vs 3rd person, etc. There could also be multiple guides for the same subject (i.e. g9 final, where one person suggests a hit-and-run tactic while another person suggests grabbing a friend with r1 spear of light and brionac, and just have them nuke claim solas to bypass its hp thresholds), who's to say one's more correct/valid than the other? Hell, two guides can thoroughly contradict each other while still being perfectly valid @_@

I would think the best approach would be to to assume the player reading the guide is either:

• Clueless and want to find something on the subject
• Stuck and existing information does not help them
• Looking into something much deeper for a better understanding

I see what you are trying to say, but it never hurts to have multiple options covering the same subject, provided it is within the means and intends to educate the reader, rather than flat out lie and use a bad outdated strategy. It also depends on the reader. If a guide disinterests them, then they are free to look at other guides covering the same subject.

My concern with this is, will all guides on the same subject share a page? Or will they be subpages to each persons' user page? If it's all on one page, we could separate them by header/editor, but then some may get outdated if the editor stops contributing to the wiki and other are not allowed to edit others content so we would have to first think of a basic rule set for etiquette.

No. I'd rather have it kept in separate pages and yes, they will have to be subpage(s) of the user just as a way to know who wrote it and such. Fortunately, I am fine with anyone editing and correcting my mistakes, provided there was a given reason and I approve of it. I'll leave it up to the user if they want people editing their page(s) or not.

Of course, the title will have to be straight forward in order to make finding the guide much easier. I mean "Finale Guide" could mean anything unless someone puts like "G1 Finale" or something like that. Same thing with stuff like guides to skill sets. The name of the guide will have to be something simple and short, but still reflect the guide's content.

Lexis covered the rest of your concerns, but on the topic of being outdated, we may need to add an exception to the current rules of userspaces to allow others to deprecate out of date guides. Perhaps that should be reserved only for staff, and others would have to report it to them? I'm not sure such a measure is necessary, though. I trust the greater amount of you to not be trolls about the system.

PS: This is going to be implemented in some form regardless, so please use this topic for discussing the manner that it is, rather than dissenting. Guides are also going to exclusively be in the userspace, as they are opinion based. I'll accept no argument on those matters.

Feel free, however, to discuss concerns, ideas, or what have you.

Personally I think informative pages like The Story So Far... should be included in the category as well. How does Category:User Guides sound?

Actually it's going to be super simplified and will eventually replace Mabinogi Storyline Recap. However, I bit off more than I could chew and it, unfortunately, evolved into something massive and requires much replaying, which I don't mind. The problem is my attention span and lack of updating it.

As far as "completed" story lines, my story page can be used as a means to totally rewrite the appropriate sections in the recap page, as I have paraphrased every, single, possible detail.

What about Vindictus then?

Mabinogi ≠ Vindictus, regardless of the amount of similarities that exist. plus this is a Mabinogi wiki, not a Vindictus one.

D: You're making me feel like I wrote that up for nothing qq

Aside from that, I guess that's true...

I look at it sometimes :c. Just saying that that The wiki should focus more so on Mabinogi than stuff pointed out in Vindictus that connects to Mabinogi.

No. I want a category for guides specifically. Other things can do whatever (eg. have their own category, I don't care), but I don't want people having to flithel through a bunch of gunk just to get to the important parts. That's actually highly against the direction I want to take with the wiki.

So I was in the hospital for the past two weeks, so like yeah. Anyway I pointed out some things here[1]. Kinda like party pooping and parade raining. I can say I've had a lot of experience firsthand with this sorta stuff though.

The StyleEquip template currently lists "Enchant Availability" to reflect the categories an equipment is a part of, and I feel it may generate some confusion. Let's look at Guard Cylinders as an example.

Both Guard Cylinder and Rebis GC are part of the Categories: Magic Armor, Shield, Guard Cylinder, Steel. This causes their equipment page to display, next to Enchant Types, "/ Magic Armor / Shield / Guard Cylinder / Steel /". Nowhere here is there a distinction of Cylinder, which may create the false perception that GCs can't get regular Cylinder enchants, like Synergy (but they can!)

In addition, Magic Armor and Guard Cylinder aren't (to my knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong) Enchant Types at the moment. The Category:Guard_Cylinder page could easily be merged into Category:Cylinder page, with any redirects forwarding the user to a dedicated section for Guard Cylinders, and Category:Magic_Armor would probably be better as a list (because, again, it doesn't correspond to an enchant type, and it isn't used for more than a reference for any users looking for equipment that confer M.Def/M.Pro bonuses).

TL;DR - Merge/redraft as List/otherwise edit any Categories so that they accurately correspond with Enchant Types.

Just checking for a go-ahead from a superuser, or any feedback or recommendations against the idea from other wiki editors.

For your example: So you're saying make Guard Cylinder a sub category of Cylinders...that right?

Also most of the data comes from the xml files and what not, which makes data input much simpler for the wiki's automated template generation.

I guess while the topic's here, there is only 1 ES that works with Instruments for Rank 9 Suffix (as far as I'm concerned), and that is Cherished enchant. Raven didn't work despite having the "Weapons" tag (on in the case of my Lyre, One-Handed Weapon). Oh well...only took me 1 run for the enchant but not like I'll ever farm it again.

I put it in its own category because certain idiots would eventually bitch about it.

If there is a consensus or someone else wishes to do it, they can be moved (or added) to Cylinders.

Much like how: Ranged Attack ≠ Throwing attack ≠ Combat ≠ Anything that that pings range? Totally.

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge of how the equip and weapon templates work nowdays, but can't we just edit tags like Guard Cylinder, Magic Armor, and other non-enchant related tags to not show up and make Guard Cylinder trigger the Cylinder tag? I don't really see a need for a category merge assuming it doesn't autodetect categories, rather it looks at the xml string of an item's itemdb entry.

Yeah, maybe I'm just misinformed, I know that it doesn't automatically copy over every Category for many skill equips. As an example, many items are part of categories "Reforgeable equipment," "Blacksmithed equipment," etc., but they do not show up on Enchant Type tab.

So I guess the question is if it's possible to A) remove inaccurate enchant types (see: earlier example; Magic Armour, Guard Cylinder) and B) add in ones that an equipment isn't necessarily categorized as. For example, Guard Cyl showing Cylinder without actually merging it.

Okay, it should now say Shield and Cylinder enchant tags on that section, and it is still in the Guard Cylinder category. I also removed the Magic Armor enchant tag but didn't touch categorization so all magic armor and guard cylinders are still under that category. I am not sure how remove guard cylinders from the magic armor category (without touching actual magic armor) due to limited knowledge.

Nice fix! I think it may be worth keeping them a part of the Magic Armor category for now, as they do meet the requirement of being an equipment that adds M.Pro/M.Def, if any improvement is to be made it'll be just converting this page into a List page.

Converting which page into a list?

Only Category:Magic_Armor, it's a superfluous thing though, really.

I'm just going to put this here, since it's vaguely relevant. Anyone have experience with Semantic MediaWiki? Were they good or bad experiences? I think in theory it could benefit the wiki quite a bit. One way would be getting rid of manually updated list pages. Another way is being able to search for pages by properties.

Manually Updated List Pages?

What is this heaven?

In the form of inline queries!

I was researching Glyphs on wiki and noticed that there isn't any "Glyph List" much less Glyphs listed by catagory. The other thing troubling me about the glyphs is that there isn't any glyphs in the game that are centered around "Life" talents or "Production" talents. ie: Gathering Speed, Smithing Perfection, Cooking Top Grades and so on. If we are to have a true fantasy life experience shouldn't these types of glyphs be created in the game?

https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/User:Kadalyn

if you're looking for a list, don't you just mean the one on the actual glyph page...?

https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Glyph#Possible_Glyph_Effects

Other than that, if you got concerns and suggestions about the game's contents, you should address them at nexon, not the wiki.

What I was suggesting is that there isn't any life skills glyphs. Every glyph in the game is combat or music related. There isn't any for the following talents in the game. (Tailoring, Blacksmithing, Cooking, Weaving, Refining, Metallurgy, Gathering) and so on. Should there be at least a list of these talents and a simple statement saying "Not Available for Glyph Stat Boosts at this time"????

Found an Enchant Scroll called "Eagle" from Peaca Normal and its an r6. It gives -9% repair cost and is only for Magical Clothing. I checked for it on the r6 enchant page but could not find it, so im just letting u guys know.

Oh and I forgot to add that it's a suffix.

You can't find it with the r6 enchants because it's here with the r4 enchants.

I have updated all relevant information. I believe that elves no longer receive the boss quests. I have saved all the previous data anyway just in case I get some. I have been running all the quests on my mule so I should have all of the information correct.

By the way, we shouldn't be removing quests no longer obtainable, since people who still have them can still do them. Instead, they should be moved to an archived page.

This page exists when the same quest is already described here. Should the individual quest page be deleted for redundancy or should every quest have its own page?

I vote against only having it on one page, but I do not think that it should have it's own page, more likely being on the same page with similar quests.

I will just move all the boss quests over there since that is the only removal as of now.

Why is this happening? :| It makes me very unhappy.

I would like to know the answer to that question as well. I will note that from what I've seen its been done by one user, and I haven't seen a reason given for it on any of the pages I've checked. I cant find a reason for it given anywhere on the wiki. weapon grade information is very relevant to have on each weapons given page because it helps users who are looking for performance over fashion find the weapon grade that's right for them, for example Fluted Short Sword dropped by Lycanthrope could have the highest min/max damage and durability for fluted short swords, wheres the ones made through black-smithing only have higher critical by 2 points and lower attack by 1 and 1 respectively. the thing that bothers me the most about it is how no reason was given by the user who removed all the information. it bothers me because from poking around I've seen that the user has actually provided a good amount of relevant information around on the wiki. could someone please elaborate why the weapon grade information has been removed with no explanation?

the lack of explanation makes it feel like its some sort of elitist plot to remove the evidence of weapons that perform much better then their NPC/gotcha/fashion-grade counter parts <.<;

..ok i joke with that plot idea, but seriously the weapon grade information should be posted back on the pages because its much more relevant then the new "available enchant types" bar that's recently been added to weapon pages.

Weapon Grades

If you can't find something try searching for it.

It was removed from the pages because weapon grade is either "Stock" "Monster-Type" "Synthesized" or "Crafted". With regards to the monster drops, the boosts are entirely independent of the monster that dropped them. Having the table on every page is useless clutter, so it was moved to the category page and can still be found by searching for it.

I was the one who removed it after requesting permission to do so.

i hope this reply wont be discarded as a "tl;dr" post...

Id like to start by noting that until a discussion i had with a friend later the day that you posted your above reply Tellos, I wasn't actually aware that the 1-4 grading was random on the monster drops =o

the reason for this is that by coincidence when i got monster-dropped weapons they just happened to have matched up with all the cluttered grade graph. lucky i guess, and a bit strange.

that being said however, i still disagree with complete removal of the Grade section on weapons. i agree that it was indeed looking cluttered. all gear on the wiki contains a "grade" section. shields, clothing, armors etc. and i think weapons are the items that are most deserving of a grade section on their respective page since all the other types of gears mentioned rarely come in grade variants (to my knowledge none do aside from crafted armors, but don't quote me on this because i haven't investigated into it much) but weapons do and I'm not entirely focusing on just the average monster-grade variants.

plus, for the more simple folk out there its nice to not have to do the math (tho its not like X+4 is difficult, I'm only adding this comment because a few people i talked to mentioned that they feel the graph was convenient since this is a encyclopedia and its convenient to just see the information on the page of the item your looking up).

there was still some noteworthy information tacked on to the grade sections that the weapons list page you linked too both explains as relevant and lacks the detailing of on its own page (btw i did search and come across that page, tho i did neglect to check the discussion to see that you had the go-ahead on it, sorry if my first post made it sound like i was making an accusation of any sort, i was lightheartedly joking with the comment so if it rubbed you the wrong way im really sorry).

the relevant information i speak of is explained by the Note thats in bold on the weapons list. weapons that are dropped with a fixed durability increase. not all the fixed durability weapons are of a simple +4. usually they are +5. check the history on some of the weapon pages and you can see this, i suggest Bastard Sword and Hooked Cutlass.

the Bastard Sword page listed a variant with 19 durability dropped by Giant Lion, 17 durability dropped by Giant Sand Worm, 16 durability by Red Dragon. the Base durability for Bastard sword is 10, so each of those weapons are unique to their source, if the information that was in the list is indeed correct that is. i cant confirm their validity because i dont fight these bosses or know anyone who has received one of those noted items.

Hooked Cutlass is an example of a weapon that has no monster-grade version as neither of the 2 versions of it that were listed came from monster sources. both had the same stats except that they differed in durability. the "base" version listed was 10 durability, the second version came from Gachapons and has 15 durability, a bonus of 5 not 4.

i hope that's sufficient information to make my point that not all weapons are a simple +4, at least in regards to weapon durability. the single most convenient thing that listing grade could provide is informing players the source of those weapons which have the preset durability bonus dropped by the raid bosses(even if their additional bonus' are still random), and so that in cases such as the Hooked Cutlass for example, they would know the item they just got from a Gachapon is different then the collection book version and thus might fetch a higher price when sold in a player shop or traded to another individual.

it would be handy to still retain a grade section in my opinion. it could list Base, a simplified monster grade entry that only listes the +4 max bonus, an entry for crafted versions (smithing/synthing or carpentry for bow items, but avoiding multiple entry's of this type if the weapon is creatable by more then one method but end result is the same) and finally retaining unique grades that with a specific source such as those found in gachapons or dropped from raid bosses such as Dragons or found in connus treasure chests. to top it off, any grade section for any gear should really have the show/hide tab, i think its handy because it really reduces the the initial look of clutter for many entry's that can sometimes get cluttered looking.

the draw back to that idea is that now the grades would have to be reinstated and then edited, more work then i think i would be qualified to do since I've only ever done minor edits such as a misspelling here or there and a botched description that was on the Scrupulous enchant about a year ago.

Its really not my intention to make an argument of this, i just wanted to share the view Ive come too about this after the discussion i had with my friend.

i would like to thank you Tellos for sparking a discussion that helped me realize that the majority of monster-dropped weapon grades are random. thanks. and i realize i probably babbled a bit along they way, that's why i try to avoid commenting on wiki's. so sorry if the post was a bit more to chew on then wanted.

While I understand what you're saying, the giant field bosses also follow this trend. Giant field boss weapons always have a fixed amount added onto their base, then the grade applied to it. For example, the Bastard Sword you're talking about is clearly a +5 variant (10+5+Grade bonus). The problem with listing the grades is that stats are always randomized with the field boss or external source exception (solea chest weapons with 25 dura for example).

This is where the problem comes in. Remove the grade info from the item grades list (since it is truly random within the set range with no weight at all) and you've just got the drop list. If a certain source has more dura than normal, then you should specify it on the drop list. For example, you could put Desert Dragon (15~19 dur) or something of that nature.

This, however, does not acccount for all fishing or really other common means to get these items. For example, fished a Machete this afternoon with much lower stats than what was given on wiki, yet one of the locations includes the area as a source. What is done in this situation?

The base values listed on the page were incorrect and have been corrected. Fished items are always of base type but with 0/x durability with the exception of irrepairable items which have full dura. I believe this is listed on the fishing page. So nothing needs to be done in this situation.

Then should there be a message that explains that the weapon listed is the best of its variation?--GravityKirby 01:15, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

The weapon listed is the stock version with no boosts or penalties.

Okay, thanks for the clear up.

First off, It seems that friends list is fixing, it's not gray anymore, but friends are NOT showing, second the guild chat is working like it was, but it is more laggy.

...Try relogging.

The 'non-gray' part is a part something going on with the interface, like eventually the grayness disappears if incapacitated too long or the lengthly cutscenes. It's not fixed.

I did relog, but a hour ish later, it did the same thing.

Ah Jeez, they didn't fix it through last night's maintenance!? Damnit!

Nope...right now my window isn't faded and it doesn't do anything. You can set a status or add a friend, but other than that...nothing.

The guild list also shows up as blank, but if your not in a guild, don't worry about it.

That just happens when you stay online and on the same channel for too long. :l

Didn't I just say that?

You're welcome.

I've CC'd several times and it's stuck like that for me. even logging in just now, it's stuck like that.

Just sit tight and wait people, NEXON'S working their asses off trying to fix this, but at least you can still play the game. Stop bitching and just let them fix it. Eventually stuff like this happens to every game, and NEXON just seems to be cursed with stuff like this. In such, it might have been another hacker attack, or people botting and modding (I've known that to crash a game before) or just something like a misplaced suffix in the game code, it's hard to know right now. Eventually they'll get it fixed.

If you're so concerned with not being able to talk to people use Skype on Ventrilo. That's what me and my friend have been doing, and it's really more efficient.

You really dont pay attention much do you.

@Nadindel, I have several problems with that.... Just sit tight and wait people, NEXON'S working their asses off trying to fix this

Uh, no, they aren't really trying to fix it. Housing's been broken for months, FL and guild chat for about 5 weeks. If they really wanted to fix it, they'd have called DevCAT, Other Nexon Teams, and whoever else they needed to, and they would have fixed it right then. Nexon doesn't give a rat's ass about the game, as long as they're making money. I still hold that the only reason it got "fixed" is that Nexon's net profit tanked.

at least you can still play the game.

Social Interaction is a very big part of Mabi. The game is not meant to be played solo. Also, the game is falling apart at the seams, in case you didn't notice.

Eventually stuff like this happens to every game

No, it doesn't. Some companies actually use test servers to stop issues like this. Or they fix the problems right away. They don't languish around like Congress.

NEXON just seems to be cursed with stuff like this.

Gee, I wonder why? If you think they're "cursed" with it, you need to have your head examined. They aren't cursed. The just don't give a flying *** enough to take simple preventive measures.

In such, it might have been another hacker attack, or people botting and modding (I've known that to crash a game before)

Seriously? Someone would hack the chat server. WTF would that gain them? "Oh gee, I can see people's messages!" Big news, you can too by pressing L! Modding and botting would only crash the game servers. To have a mod or bot crash the chat server, everyone would need to be a spambot, and everyone's pets would have to talk at the same time. Again, there's no motive to do this. Even IF the chat server crashed, all they would have to do is restart it, and it'd be fixed. Contrary to what you may think, it does not take 5 weeks and 3 failed maintenances to restart a server.

misplaced suffix in the game code. So what, Nexon slipped in an update when we weren't looking? The client didn't change when the server went down. If they "updated" the chat server, A)They would have taken Mabi down for Maint, as you can't upgrade a server in use.

B) They would have immediately rolled back the server.

C) They would have been on the phone to devCAT right away.

Eventually they'll get it fixed

When? When there's three players left?

Skype on Ventrilo.

That's just stupid. We shouldn't have to use other programs to replace a standard game function. Besides, not everyone has a Skype or Vent.

Stop bitching and just let them fix it.

Language. This is the internet. We'll do whatever we want. If you don't like it, reach behind your computer and unplug the network cable. It's better for everyone.

Now you're just being one of those people that wants everything to be perfect. I've seen the crash logs, I've been having those happen to me for over a year, I've also seen all the maintenance they've done recently, they ARE trying to fix it. And when I say hacker, not someone trying to hack the social system, it could be a side effect of a hacker attack.

And you're being one of the idiots who'll pay Nexon to keep up this crappy service. Don't bulls--- me. Nexon could replace all game content with a single, unpolished turd, and they'd still rake in money from people like you who would defend their actions. They'd be perfectly happy doing that, too, because they don't care about user experience. They just want to make money.

Take WoW or RS or any other MMO where people pay money to play the game. Do servers ccrash randomly? Do they copy/paste and unimplimented quests, which royally f---s everyone over, and then not fix it?

By my count, it's been 7 weeks since that bug. They still have not fixed it. The only reason most people are able to play is because I fixed the game for a friend and shared the fix. It took me an hour. Nexon's done nothing in 7 weeks. I weon't even go into housing. Don't sit there and spout lies. The fact that they lack simple preventive measures and testing is a good indicator of just how much they care.

All the maintenaces they've done recently have only proven that Nexon fails more than anyone dared to think before. If any other game team did that, they'd be fired before you could say "oops!". Nexon shouldn't need to run back to mommy and daddy in Korea for every fix. When they need help, they should ask for it then, not 3 weeks later. What they're doing is almost criminally stupid, and you, in all honesty, don't look too good by defending them.

You also don't seem to understand that the CHAT server and the GAME server are completely unrelated. One doesn't affect the other. In order for someone to damage the chat server by hacking, they'd have to deliberaly target the chat server. However, the chat server isn't responsible for anything hack-worthy. All hack attemps would be directed at the game server. Since, logically, the two are seperate, it's not possible for the hack to "splash over" and accidentally wipe out the chat server.

Do I want everything to be perfect? Yes. We all do. Do I expect it to be perfect? Of course not. There are occasional bumps. Things happen. Nexon, however, seems to have tripped and rolled right down a mountain and off of a cliff. Pretty soon they'll hit bottem, and the game will be scrapped. I love the game, or I'd have jumped ship long ago. Instead, I content myself with not buying NX. If they make no profit, perhaps they'll try harder to fix things. If not, the game will still flop, and look at all the money I saved.

They keep the game free, the only funding they get is from people buying NX. Do that a bit more, and maybe they could be like WoW.

You still don't understand, so I'll bold it: Nexon doesn't care about the game, they only want money. If we bought "a bit more", would the game get better? No, some Nexon Manager would just fatten his pocket. Use your head.

If you don't believe me, think back to a year ago, when Mabi had loads of players. People bought loads of NX. Nexon still behaved like they do now, and have always done. They still screwed up majorly. People buying NX changes nothing, besides the size of a CEO bonus. If you want to help him buy that 4th ferrari, go right ahead. I prefer to give my money to companies that care.

Hey, this is not the place to argue about Nexon.

End thread.

So does anyone know if the friends list and guild chat is ever going to be fixed? Twice now Nexon has said it's fixed and twice they were wrong. I'm kind of getting tired of not being able to talk to anyone and it doesn't seem like nexon is doing anything to fix this issue.

Third time's the charm perhaps?

I wish. I really do

It was working on Mari last night. Haven't checked today.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but Tarlach FL and Guild chat is working perfectly as of 8:34 pm Pacific time-and it was working 4 hours before when I logged out. So, Tarlach is fixed, I guess.

Hello. I've been working on the game scripts and I am curious: for easier navigation between the Generation quests' scripts as well as the sidequests' scripts that come after, would it be possible for me (or anyone, really) to create a navigation panel between them? I imagine it would work in the same way Template:Generation does.

If it's too tedious/not necessary, then no worries!

EDIT: Oh dear. I just realized there's a notice at the top indicating that this page is only for discussion of the front page. I apologize!

Didn't notice this sry but would recommend posting in the projects section of the forums. It's certainly doable tho!

Sorry I'm super late with this (I just noticed I never received a ping for this one somehow). Before I go through with the proposal on the forums, though: would it possible to make the nav pane template borrowing the existing code from Template:Generation, but with some modifications?

For example, I modified it to make this sample, but I'm not sure if it'd work as I hope (might be errors in it, too). I also didn't wanna publish it in case it breaks something:

<small>{{#switch: {{PAGENAME}} |Script - Generation 1: Advent of the Goddess=<span style="float:right;"> [[Script - Generation 2: Paladin]] ></span> |Script - Generation 2: Paladin=<span style="float:left;">< [[Script - Generation 1: Advent of the Goddess]]</span><span style="float:right;"> [[Script - Generation 3: Dark Knight]] ></span> }}</small>

Since it's for a different set of pages it has to be a new template anyway, so you can just put it into a new template and use that one without breaking anything. Don't edit Template:Generation itself, of course, since that's for actual generation pages and not scripts.

Yeah, that's what I meant; a new page and to refrain from editing Template:Generation. Thanks!

After some testing, I was able to get it to work. Thanks a lot!

The title. Out of curiosity, I went to the site (using the link provided on the panel at the right) to check if it still exists and well, that leads to the next part of this. The front page of the site is loaded with 18+ content. I recall this game being OK for children as young as 10 to play, so I'm not sure if you'd want the link to be somewhere where they can potentially access it. Or, is this okay?

Seems like the link target is off, apologies, I'll figure it out.

Okay so my affiliates account is gone and for some reason that causes the link to redirect to their 18+ site ?? I don't know. Since it didn't generate any money anyway I just removed it. If you're curious, the SFW site is jbox.com

Data Miners

Demonic_Illusion_Handle

FYI, the Demonic Handle is released. I accidentally broke the template, that's the only reason the page looks like that.

I believe Bristingr is referring to this, actually. No data, especially if it's obviously from the client files.

(Though, what's wrong with the template?) 'Kay, it was just an unclosed square bracket.

“	FYI, the Demonic Handle is released	„

Just going to quickly point out that there's a difference between an item's data being "released" (available through data mining) and an item being released (available in-game).

It's released in Korea, making it fair game for the Wiki.

I'm...going to guess that you haven't:

1. Read the MW policy.
2. Kept up with what's been going on regarding data mining.

• Do not add or use information from the Public Test Server.
• Do not copy and paste information from the game's client files.

• Do not directly paste the results of online translators onto future content pages without editing them for clarity. Nonsensical information is as bad as incorrect information.

• Future content info is okay! Just try to use NA server's localized names when appropriate. Make sure to type " {{FutureContent}} " at the top of the page or section to label it as future content.
  • Also, when adding future items/equipment, please check [[:Category:Future Items]] to make sure we don't already have it.

http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Mabinogi_World_Wiki:Policy

Not a single thing saying Korean content is not okay.

Additionally, I did not make that template, I broke it trying to input crafting parameters. I looked at multiple data templates for weapons and couldn't figure any of them out because ALL of them use client code like that to define the template parameters.

What I said was in regards to you adding the weapon's stats to the page, not you breaking the template due to your inexperience with templates. Regardless of which method you would have used, you were going to add the weapon stats anyway, so I don't know why you're bringing that up. Unrelated comments aside,

“	*Localize everything to the North American server.	„

^Doesn't just mean the names and descriptions, but item values/stats as well. There have been cases where the stats of an item on the NA server were different from its KR counterpart (i.e. the beam swords), so using the stats from the KR server before it's released technically isn't correct anymore (Before the announcement on the NA forums, it would've been okay, but they made it pretty clear that they don't want people spoiling content). So you either went through the game files and found those stats, or are using the stats of the KR server.

That, and you probably haven't been following the whole data mining announcement on the NA Mabinogi Forums then.

If you read the future content tag above every single page:

"the article may be based on Mabinogi overseas. Details may change before the release."

It's completely fine to use Korean stats because it's not impossible to edit them once the items do reach here. Details can change, and they might.

Also, I have kept up on the announcement of data mining. I even went ahead and searched through several Nexon Forum threads, and found one in which Sabina herself clarified the definition:

• Information from foreign servers is okay
  • Publicly available information, regardless of country, is not data mining
  • Foreign test server information is not okay
  • Foreign client data is not okay
• Public test server data is not okay
• Local client data is not okay.

I think you're still missing the point.

“	No data, especially if it's obviously from the client files.	„

No matter how much you argue to try and justify what you're doing, all you're doing is contributing to the problem, albeit without the intent to do so. and

“	FYI, the Demonic Handle is released	„

This wiki is for NA Mabi. Saying that it's released and not mentioning that you're using data from KR Mabi in the first place makes it look like you're getting the info by other means (data mining being one possibility).

(@Yinato - Um. Maenad didn't add the weapon's stats - that was Kevin, before the policy change. Maenad just added the crafting data, which can be found outside client files. It's just that when the template broke, it showed the Mabi Item ID thing, which is why I removed the template.)

wut o-o Weird, it's showing up as being added by Maenad on my screen. If that's the case, then sorry Maenad, should've brought that up earlier. But the last part I said in my previous response still stands though.

Future content information is fine to add if it has a web-based source, e.g. the Korean gameabout site or JP wiki.

As to this point, the weapon stats can be obtained from gameabout, so dunno why it's not okay to add them.

“	No data, especially if it's obviously from the client files.	„

Ah, I see now. Well, since this is the case, I nominate for deletion, Template:DataTrinity Staff, Template:DataLongsword, Template:DataLong Bow, Template:DataBasic Control Bar, Template:DataLollipop-shaped Sword, Template:DataSoul-Searcher Sword, Template:DataFomor War Sword, Template:DataBattle Mace, Template:DataShaoranen's Bow of Chivalry, Template:DataWisdom of Snakes, Template:DataMaster Lich Wand...

...well that's odd. I can't seem to find a single weapon template that doesn't utilize XML code taken from the client. Looks like we need an entirely new weapon template system.

Yeah, Kevin put a lot of effort in to convert the templates to use XML a while back - which is especially why it hurt when client file stuff was explicitly banned.

Anyways, as per this post a few discussions away, we won't need to delete them - just change them when the opportunity comes.

This update is adding a ton of new weapons. They can't stay without templates forever, so now seems like a good time.

When I have the time, I will be converting all of our current equipment/item pages and the few templates that read xml.

In regard to the beam swords: two versions came out in our server. The stronger ones were removed a week after and whatever.

I've skipped most of this gigantic thread. I'll just spell it out for you guys.

• Content from foreign official servers OKAY
• Content from any test servers BAD
• Content from foreign wikis OKAY

As far as the demonic weapons go, it is okay to add the pages.

The demonic illusion handle information was added by me before the entire xml conflict.

Oh, Maenad already posted someting similar.

@ OP, I know you're trying to make a fool out of us, but you're doing it to yourself.

What about cases where the info posted on foreign wiki clearly came from data mining? Would we be free to post that info, since we were not the ones who obtained it, or does that 'no data-mining' rule apply to even foreign data?

The latter, but, knowing me, I'm not one to strictly enforce it.

apparently lightsabers are out in KR now o-o I made a page for one of them, so-called High Emission Red Beam Sword any comments??

Sure. Doesn't this kind of discussion belong in the Forums?

Not too sure. Here's another so called rainbow beam sword (in JP) Rainbow Beam Sword Someone could probably translate that, not gonna bother to make a page right now. When will Nexon stop coming up with ridiculous weapons....

I thought we dont have these in our files. How is someone getting the description for them then?

For the High Emission Red Beam Sword, I translated it from my head :x

The Beam Swords weren't DevCAT's idea, it was from a design contest. (And Nexon doesn't come up with ideas or make stuff, DevCAT does. > .> People need to learn the difference...)

Eh, there's also a spacesuit...

any other ridiculous items? o.o

A longsword with 1 dura and massive attack power. 1~999.

The dura is about the equivalent of a machete at base dura (It's not exactly one...)? but seriously, it can't be repaired. and I don't quite think it's an enchant either.

I was aware of that one. It cannot be enchanted, repaired. Its durability is just like the ghost sword, not machete. It also seems to me that the event gives out pre-reforged items, and their ranks being random (some people have rank 1, while many others have rank 3). Ice dragon egg also comes out (works just like the flamemare whistle)

Also, somebody wanna change the High Emission Red Beam Sword's title? It should be high effieciency instead and I don't know how to change :x

changed it to Red Beam Sword (High Effieciency). I recall there's also basic and normal ones right?

Yup. Same for green, blue, and rainbow.

Fun...sounds like another...1..2...12 pages. awesome D:<

Well, it's not really necessary to add them...o_o

ehh made redirect pages and disambiguations...haven't made the actual weapons pages because I don't know the stats x.x...technically each one is different though we might not get it, it's still a good idea to get the pages up for anyone who wants to see it.

By the way, never translate descriptions yourself or with a translating program. We only accept official translations from the game in NA.

Beam Sword Stats

Note that the beam sword that I found is different than any grade mentioned in the forum. I feel like it's different for KR and CH/TW

I am aware of Mabidata, if you notice I actually posted in that thread. What I said about descriptions still stands true.

I know, but I'm just saying the info I found was from Mabinogi About KR. So I was wandering if stats for these swords would differ in region.

This has been bugging me for a while. Ever since the dungeon update, a particular mob can have varying strengths depending on the dungeon. Has a design been discussed on how to accommodate this?

I've discussed it with Rydian on several occasions but it hasn't exactly gone anywhere concrete.

There is a mockup here but it isn't entirely satisfying. There are concerns listed there but also like, what happens when there's multiple locations for maps (for world mobs)? It's a concern even for dungeon mobs since some show up in the overworld too (like half of Fiodh/Coill, Imps, etc).

I'm pretty sure you can calculate defense/prot on some mobs, but then there's the newer mobs with really weird tags to make them more difficult (like to remove elemental damage, or to have a stander but hide its visible ping). So the two of us are kind of divided on how to handle "defenses" or if it's even viable.

The current data is...questionable in some places too. I'm not sure there was ever a standard on how to determine damage or detection range/movement speed. It's difficult to be sure they're consistent.

Anyway it's a huge problem and I would be super happy if someone picked it up.

I've had a go at the design over here. Using the mockup as a base, I made a few changes and filled in some data to see what it'd look like. Mainly, skills are separated into "active" and "passive", where active contains skills such as Smash, Counter, Windmill ect. where "passive" contains skills such as Invulnerability, Chain-casting, Standers ect. It could also accommodate any weird tags you mentioned, of which they'd need to be defined beforehand however. As for the multiple map locations, it could be listed as |*Gairech Hill (North) ... |*Gairech Hill (Dragon Ruins) ... and if the stats are shared for the 2 places |*Gairech Hill (North, Dragon Ruins). The template is concise, but sort of messy.

Stepping back, there's also the possibility of keeping the old template and listing monsters by dungeon instead of by type. So instead of a "Bear" page, monsters for a particular area could be listed under that area. But that opens up quite a few more problems, such as duplication and general untidiness. It could be left as is, with only the mobs with variations using the new template, while any standalone mobs keep the old one to avoid wasted space, but the it'd look very inconsistent. Or perhaps location could be replaced with tabs, and stats are displayed according to which location is selected.

Idk. It's a tough problem no doubt. Gonna need to play around with a few more mockups.

I really don't like tabs. Your idea of having them per dungeon/area seems good honestly. The monster data goes into a central template so all of the relevant data can just be there and we can import it thru the relevant monster style based on the page it's in.

We could get rid of family pages (or turn them into links instead or something) and do one per monster I guess, then have locations as a gallery instead of being in the template itself?

I did some research and found that Ragnarok Online has a monster database which sparked some inspiration. Perhaps we could just use a single interface to access monster data instead of hundreds of pages? However, I can't really see the down side to too many pages unless storage is an issue. Further research shows that other games use either family pages, or single pages and list them based on area.

Couldn't find a game that has such a variety of monsters as Mabi, and the games that come close use single pages for each mob. This leads me to believe that consolidating groups of monsters on a single page probably isn't a good idea anymore.

Perhaps a good solution is turning family pages into categories, listing monsters as links on the dungeon/area page and each monster has a unique page. Additionally, on the area page, hovering over the links could provide a small amount of info on the monster such as a picture, HP, CP, Gold and EXP. Or we could swap the hovering for a collapsible table.

Edit: Also just realized if each monster had a separate page, the layout wouldn't have to be compact. We could favour readability over space.

I want to create a page for the Engraved Runestone (from the Chain Slash series of quests), however there are two of them. Technically, after speaking with one of the NPCs in the quest-line, the first Engraved Runestone you receive is "replaced" with a second one. They both share the exact same name and icon, however their descriptions are different. How should I go about making the pages for them?

If it were a piece of gear I would recommend (type 1) and (type 2) but somehow that seems strange for a miscellaneous item. Perhaps the parenthetical could be who gave them to you? Like Engraved Runestone (from Duncan) and Engraved Runestone (from Bespectacled Boy)? Then a disambiguation page at Engraved Runestone

Best I can come up with anyway!

I think I will go with that. Thank you!

Some wing pages have their image codes as long and bothersome to edit in bulk (example) (image re-size also specified), whereas some others have the page code as Clothing Preview (example 2). Is it possible to have Clothing Preview template used, but with Day/Night? (or possibly, a Wing template since a lot of wings now glow?) Also, are image resizes stated for a reason?

The image size is the displayed size, this way we can have large resolution images that are still displayed reasonably on one page.

I will look into adding day/night to the clothing preview template but not right now.

Ahh okay, I wasn't sure if it was needed because clothing in large res is usually resized to fit the page. I'll create pages with with the longer code when I have time then.

I was wondering if anyone was going to make a list of tails or start adding some in, I have a Rurutie's Tail I'd love to add except...I'm not sure what template I should use. I'm new to all this editing stuff so any advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated! :D

Template is kind of the issue x_X Since this is a totally new equip, with its own separate slot. I'm assuming that Rurutie's Tail and the others are still Style-Tab only?

Yup, only style tab. For the clothing preview I think we only need to show the side, back and angled. I saw some tail pages that have already been made but the picture for the front isn't filled so it doesn't look professional...

Yeah, it would require some editing of the ClothingPreview template, and the StyleEquip template - and since both of those templates are used very extensively, I'm a little hesitant on editing them. Maybe if we can poke some Admins back to life... >.o Or someone who has expert knowledge about templates - or, uh, more time for us to understand more, or take a longer look at it... Hm, for now maybe kind of follow what's on the Fluffy Puppy Tail page?

Alright, also how do you add in that box to put gifs in? I looked all over the site but can't find the instructions on how to put it in. :x

Oh! Yeah, usually best to just look at the code of a page that has it - in this case, the code is {{ActionEquip}}

If you view the Wiggling Kitsune Headband page and click Edit, you'll see that code right under == Description ==

But yeah, sometimes codes are hard to track down - You know you've seen it done somewhere but can't remember where, and which code does what isn't always very obvious. Such is the constant battle of editing xD;

Not an admin, but just came back to life :D...

For the time being, use {{Template:TailPreview}} for any future tails that are released.

Since I am not an expert coder - one of the solutions for the missing Front image could be to just move the pic taken from the back of the character to the Front image location and have the Tails ClothingPreview with |noBack=y. That might confuse people just coming along wanting to upload images - but since Tail images aren't exactly exploding in number, I figure we can just watch and edit the images that do get put up.

Sounds good! Just tried to edit the Fluffy Puppy Tail page but I am not sure how you made the file redirect...

Oh! I moved the file, which makes the automatic redirect. While on the file page, near the top of the page next to Read | Edit | View history, there's "More" with a downward pointing arrow. Click that and select "Move". It'll take you to a page where you can rename the file (in this case change to Fluffy Puppy Tail Equipped Front.png) and then just click on "Move Page" and wait and there you go! ^^

Ahh I see, thanks!

I have a Giant only Skill called Might of Ladeca, it's the Giant version of Breath of Ladeca. There's no page for it and I wanted to create one for it, but I don't know how.

I've created the Might of Ladeca page for you, to make things easier. However, next time, all you need to do is type the name of the page you want to make into the search bar, and it will say that the page doesn't exist. Then, you can click the red link to create the page. :D

Thanks. :D